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Libertarian4life
January 17, 2013, 1:02am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


No I'm not happy with the new NY Gun laws... They are so wimpy and could be much more effective.
Why not a 5 day cooling off period between the sale and picking up the gun... that would save lives.


Well let's not let the idea of maybe saving a life from being taken by a criminal, stand in the way of qualified licensed gun owners
from buying a gun when they want to.

That's called infringement.

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rpforpres
January 17, 2013, 5:34am Report to Moderator

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[quote
No I'm not happy with the new NY Gun laws... They are so wimpy and could be much more effective.
Why not a 5 day cooling off period between the sale and picking up the gun... that would save lives.][/quote]

Why do we bother  
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Henry
January 17, 2013, 6:50am Report to Moderator

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Just seen some cops were worried that the law might effect the number of rounds their service pistols and rifles hold, reason, because criminals are not going to obey the law and they need the same force, well no sh*t, but the law abiding citizens are supposed to be less prepared now to defend their families. By the way law enforcement is getting a pass on the bill, they can still have assault rifles and 15 shot service pistols.


"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 7:59am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life

Well let's not let the idea of maybe saving a life from being taken by a criminal, stand in the way of qualified licensed gun owners
from buying a gun when they want to.
That's called infringement.




The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 8:02am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Henry
Just seen some cops were worried that the law might effect the number of rounds their service pistols and rifles hold, reason, because criminals are not going to obey the law and they need the same force, well no sh*t, but the law abiding citizens are supposed to be less prepared now to defend their families. By the way law enforcement is getting a pass on the bill, they can still have assault rifles and 15 shot service pistols.


Until he murdered 26 people at the Sandy Hook Elementary School...
Adam Lanza was a Law Abiding Citizen.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Libertarian4life
January 17, 2013, 9:14am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


Until he murdered 26 people at the Sandy Hook Elementary School...
Adam Lanza was a Law Abiding Citizen.



George Washington was a criminal.

What's your point?

Laws are written as a guideline for law abiding people.

Writing laws for people who don't follow the law is called insanity.

Each person determines the Constitutionality of a law and chooses which laws to follow, and which should be ignored.

Laws are weighed against the penalty by sane people, and followed based on either the acceptance of the penalty by
not following the law, or the desire to not be penalized for braking it.

No mere human could possibly follow every law.

The Supreme court merely settles disputes over Constitutionality.

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BuckStrider
January 17, 2013, 9:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox




Hey Boxy....Do you know why people go to school and become lawyers?

So they can figure out ways to get around the law.

And that's not some sort of joke, that's a cold hard fact.





"Approval ratings go up and down for various reasons... An example is the high post 911 support for
GWB even though he could be said to be responsible for the event." --- Box A Rox '9/11 Truther'

Melania is a bimbo... she is there to look at, not to listen to. --- Box A Rox and his 'War on Women'

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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 9:47am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from BuckStrider

Hey Boxy....Do you know why people go to school and become lawyers?
So they can figure out ways to get around the law.
And that's not some sort of joke, that's a cold hard fact.


Your 'cold hard facts' if true are then implicating our founding fathers:
Of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 25 were lawyers.
Of the 55 framers of the Constitution, 32 were lawyers.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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GrahamBonnet
January 17, 2013, 10:16am Report to Moderator

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And Box didn't finish High School. So he know a REAL lot!


"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 12:44pm Report to Moderator

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A new Siena poll in New York finds Gov. Andrew Cuomo continues to enjoy strong support from
voters, with a 71% to 24% favorability rating and 60% to 38% job performance rating.

It would appear that most New Yorkers support the Gov's new gun law.



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 1:15pm Report to Moderator

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Why Dumb@ss GunHuggers NEED Assault Weapons:



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Henry
January 17, 2013, 1:23pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


Until he murdered 26 people at the Sandy Hook Elementary School...
Adam Lanza was a Law Abiding Citizen.


So all law abiding citizens should be treated as potential mass murderers, ok please be the first to save the kids and kill yourself, I'll even give you the bullet Do you not see how stupid your statement was, well maybe you didn't.


"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

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55tbird
January 17, 2013, 2:41pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Box A Rox
Why Dumb@ss GunHuggers NEED Assault Weapons:



Well, with the new assault weapons ban that will never happen in NYS...just like dumbasses don't blow hands off every 4th of July anymore because NYS made fireworks illegal...oh wait...


"Arguing with liberals is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock out the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it is victorious." - Author Unknown
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Box A Rox
January 17, 2013, 3:54pm Report to Moderator

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Since mid 2008 there have been more than 500 challenges to gun laws and gun prosecutions  and very
few of them have succeeded.
The courts have upheld federal laws banning gun ownership by people convicted of felonies and some
misdemeanors, by illegal immigrants and by drug addicts. They have upheld laws making it illegal to carry
guns near schools or in post offices. They have upheld laws concerning unregistered weapons. And they
have upheld laws banning machine guns and sawed-off shotguns.

Better background checks, enhanced mental health reporting and a ban on high-capacity ammunition clips
appear to also be legal restrictions on fun ownership.
The main obstacle to the passage of such measures is likely to be politics, not constitutional law.
Justice Scalia pointed out that laws banning “dangerous and unusual weapons” are “another important
limitation on the right to keep and carry arms.”


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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senders
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Quoted from Box A Rox


Until he murdered 26 people at the Sandy Hook Elementary School...
Adam Lanza was a Law Abiding Citizen.


he was a medicated student/graduate of the public school system that pat themselves on the back(deservedly so) for
getting him passed through....

like I've always said and others have already set up real life stairs, via ADD/ADHD and medications...from school house
to jail house....

Quoted Text
A.D.H.D. Study Suggests Links Between Medication and Fewer Crimes
By PAM BELLUCK
Published: November 21, 2012
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A large study suggests that people with serious attention deficit hyperactivity disorder are less likely to commit crimes when taking medication.
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Well: Younger Students More Likely to Get A.D.H.D. Drugs (November 20, 2012)
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The study, published in The New England Journal of Medicine, examined records of 25,000 people in Sweden to see if those with A.D.H.D. had fewer criminal convictions when taking medication than when they were not.

Of 8,000 people whose medication use fluctuated over a three-year period, men were 32 percent less likely and women were 41 percent less likely to have criminal convictions while on medication. Patients were primarily young adults, many with a history of hospitalization. Crimes included assault, drug offenses and homicide as well as less serious crimes. Medication varied, but many took stimulants like Ritalin.

“The study adds a lot,” said Dr. Gabrielle Carlson, director of child and adolescent psychiatry at Stony Brook University medical school, who was not involved in the study. “Cutting the crime rate, that’s not trivial. Maybe it will get some help for people in jail. It gives people who were on the fence maybe a little more confidence in this treatment.”

Studies suggest that people with A.D.H.D. are more likely to commit crimes. And while people, especially boys, are often prescribed medication as children, they often resist taking it as teenagers. Studies have not shown that medication has long-term effects on symptoms.

Dr. Paul Lichtenstein, a study author and a professor at Karolinska Institute, cautioned against concluding that everyone with A.D.H.D. should be continuously medicated.

“There are pros and cons to medication,” he said. But “in young adults, the age where criminality is most common, you should consider medication because it is more harmful for these people to be involved in criminal activities. Also for prisoners and people who have left prison.”

Researchers said that correlations between medication and decreased crime held regardless of the type of medication or crime and the presence of other disorders. They tried to determine if patients stopped treatment because of criminal convictions, but found that treatment itself appeared linked to fewer crimes.

Among psychiatric experts, when, and sometimes whether, to prescribe A.D.H.D. medication is still debated. Drugs do not work for everyone, and side effects can include jittery feelings and suppressed appetite and growth.

William Pelham, director of the Center for Children and Families at Florida International University, said nondrug therapies like behavioral modification worked as well as medication in the short run. He said that the study did not prove that medication caused less criminality, and because most subjects were seriously ill adults, the results were irrelevant for most American children.

Jason Fletcher, an associate professor at the Yale School of Public Health, said that despite some weaknesses, the study provided a “very suggestive piece of evidence” supporting medication. “Because crime is so expensive, if you can reduce it, even by half of what they’re saying, you might still say this is really effective medication.”

He did wonder if medication is reducing crime or “making better criminals,” who avoid arrest. Dr. Lichtenstein deemed that unlikely. “I don’t think you would commit the crime,” he said, “and then just not get caught.”



Quoted Text
Attention Disorder or Not, Pills to Help in School

Bryan Meltz for The New York Times
Amanda Rocafort and her son Quintn in Woodstock, Ga. Quintn takes the medication Risperdal. More Photos »
By ALAN SCHWARZ
Published: October 9, 2012 728 Comments
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CANTON, Ga. — When Dr. Michael Anderson hears about his low-income patients struggling in elementary school, he usually gives them a taste of some powerful medicine: Adderall.
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The pills boost focus and impulse control in children with attention deficit hyperactivity disorder. Although A.D.H.D is the diagnosis Dr. Anderson makes, he calls the disorder “made up” and “an excuse” to prescribe the pills to treat what he considers the children’s true ill — poor academic performance in inadequate schools.

“I don’t have a whole lot of choice,” said Dr. Anderson, a pediatrician for many poor families in Cherokee County, north of Atlanta. “We’ve decided as a society that it’s too expensive to modify the kid’s environment. So we have to modify the kid.”

Dr. Anderson is one of the more outspoken proponents of an idea that is gaining interest among some physicians. They are prescribing stimulants to struggling students in schools starved of extra money — not to treat A.D.H.D., necessarily, but to boost their academic performance.

It is not yet clear whether Dr. Anderson is representative of a widening trend. But some experts note that as wealthy students abuse stimulants to raise already-good grades in colleges and high schools, the medications are being used on low-income elementary school children with faltering grades and parents eager to see them succeed.

“We as a society have been unwilling to invest in very effective nonpharmaceutical interventions for these children and their families,” said Dr. Ramesh Raghavan, a child mental-health services researcher at Washington University in St. Louis and an expert in prescription drug use among low-income children. “We are effectively forcing local community psychiatrists to use the only tool at their disposal, which is psychotropic medications.”

Dr. Nancy Rappaport, a child psychiatrist in Cambridge, Mass., who works primarily with lower-income children and their schools, added: “We are seeing this more and more. We are using a chemical straitjacket instead of doing things that are just as important to also do, sometimes more.”

Dr. Anderson’s instinct, he said, is that of a “social justice thinker” who is “evening the scales a little bit.” He said that the children he sees with academic problems are essentially “mismatched with their environment” — square pegs chafing the round holes of public education. Because their families can rarely afford behavior-based therapies like tutoring and family counseling, he said, medication becomes the most reliable and pragmatic way to redirect the student toward success.

“People who are getting A’s and B’s, I won’t give it to them,” he said. For some parents the pills provide great relief. Jacqueline Williams said she can’t thank Dr. Anderson enough for diagnosing A.D.H.D. in her children — Eric, 15; Chekiara, 14; and Shamya, 11 — and prescribing Concerta, a long-acting stimulant, for them all. She said each was having trouble listening to instructions and concentrating on schoolwork.

“My kids don’t want to take it, but I told them, ‘These are your grades when you’re taking it, this is when you don’t,’ and they understood,” Ms. Williams said, noting that Medicaid covers almost every penny of her doctor and prescription costs.

Some experts see little harm in a responsible physician using A.D.H.D. medications to help a struggling student. Others — even among the many like Dr. Rappaport who praise the use of stimulants as treatment for classic A.D.H.D. — fear that doctors are exposing children to unwarranted physical and psychological risks. Reported side effects of the drugs have included growth suppression, increased blood pressure and, in rare cases, psychotic episodes.

The disorder, which is characterized by severe inattention and impulsivity, is an increasingly common psychiatric diagnosis among American youth: about 9.5 percent of Americans ages 4 to 17 were judged to have it in 2007, or about 5.4 million children, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The reported prevalence of the disorder has risen steadily for more than a decade, with some doctors gratified by its widening recognition but others fearful that the diagnosis, and the drugs to treat it, are handed out too loosely and at the exclusion of nonpharmaceutical therapies.

The Drug Enforcement Administration classifies these medications as Schedule II Controlled Substances because they are particularly addictive. Long-term effects of extended use are not well understood, said many medical experts. Some of them worry that children can become dependent on the medication well into adulthood, long after any A.D.H.D. symptoms can dissipate.

According to guidelines published last year by the American Academy of Pediatrics, physicians should use one of several behavior rating scales, some of which feature dozens of categories, to make sure that a child not only fits criteria for A.D.H.D., but also has no related condition like dyslexia or oppositional defiant disorder, in which intense anger is directed toward authority figures. However, a 2010 study in the Journal of Attention Disorders suggested that at least 20 percent of doctors said they did not follow this protocol when making their A.D.H.D. diagnoses, with many of them following personal instinct.

On the Rocafort family’s kitchen shelf in Ball Ground, Ga., next to the peanut butter and chicken broth, sits a wire basket brimming with bottles of the children’s medications, prescribed by Dr. Anderson: Adderall for Alexis, 12; and Ethan, 9; Risperdal (an antipsychotic for mood stabilization) for Quintn and Perry, both 11; and Clonidine (a sleep aid to counteract the other medications) for all four, taken nightly.

Quintn began taking Adderall for A.D.H.D. about five years ago, when his disruptive school behavior led to calls home and in-school suspensions. He immediately settled down and became a more earnest, attentive student — a little bit more like Perry, who also took Adderall for his A.D.H.D.

When puberty’s chemical maelstrom began at about 10, though, Quintn got into fights at school because, he said, other children were insulting his mother. The problem was, they were not; Quintn was seeing people and hearing voices that were not there, a rare but recognized side effect of Adderall. After Quintn admitted to being suicidal, Dr. Anderson prescribed a week in a local psychiatric hospital, and a switch to Risperdal.

While telling this story, the Rocaforts called Quintn into the kitchen and asked him to describe why he had been given Adderall.

“To help me focus on my school work, my homework, listening to Mom and Dad, and not doing what I used to do to my teachers, to make them mad,” he said. He described the week in the hospital and the effects of Risperdal: “If I don’t take my medicine I’d be having attitudes. I’d be disrespecting my parents. I wouldn’t be like this.”

Despite Quintn’s experience with Adderall, the Rocaforts decided to use it with their 12-year-old daughter, Alexis, and 9-year-old son, Ethan. These children don’t have A.D.H.D., their parents said. The Adderall is merely to help their grades, and because Alexis was, in her father’s words, “a little blah.”

”We’ve seen both sides of the spectrum: we’ve seen positive, we’ve seen negative,” the father, Rocky Rocafort, said. Acknowledging that Alexis’s use of Adderall is “cosmetic,” he added, “If they’re feeling positive, happy, socializing more, and it’s helping them, why wouldn’t you? Why not?”

Dr. William Graf, a pediatrician and child neurologist who serves many poor families in New Haven, said that a family should be able to choose for itself whether Adderall can benefit its non-A.D.H.D. child, and that a physician can ethically prescribe a trial as long as side effects are closely monitored. He expressed concern, however, that the rising use of stimulants in this manner can threaten what he called “the authenticity of development.”

“These children are still in the developmental phase, and we still don’t know how these drugs biologically affect the developing brain,” he said. “There’s an obligation for parents, doctors and teachers to respect the authenticity issue, and I’m not sure that’s always happening.”

Dr. Anderson said that every child he treats with A.D.H.D. medication has met qualifications. But he also railed against those criteria, saying they were codified only to “make something completely subjective look objective.” He added that teacher reports almost invariably come back as citing the behaviors that would warrant a diagnosis, a decision he called more economic than medical.

“The school said if they had other ideas they would,” Dr. Anderson said. “But the other ideas cost money and resources compared to meds.”

Dr. Anderson cited William G. Hasty Elementary School here in Canton as one school he deals with often. Izell McGruder, the school’s principal, did not respond to several messages seeking comment.

Several educators contacted for this article considered the subject of A.D.H.D. so controversial — the diagnosis was misused at times, they said, but for many children it is a serious learning disability — that they declined to comment. The superintendent of one major school district in California, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, noted that diagnosis rates of A.D.H.D. have risen as sharply as school funding has declined.

“It’s scary to think that this is what we’ve come to; how not funding public education to meet the needs of all kids has led to this,” said the superintendent, referring to the use of stimulants in children without classic A.D.H.D. “I don’t know, but it could be happening right here. Maybe not as knowingly, but it could be a consequence of a doctor who sees a kid failing in overcrowded classes with 42 other kids and the frustrated parents asking what they can do. The doctor says, ‘Maybe it’s A.D.H.D., let’s give this a try.’ ”

When told that the Rocaforts insist that their two children on Adderall do not have A.D.H.D. and never did, Dr. Anderson said he was surprised. He consulted their charts and found the parent questionnaire. Every category, which assessed the severity of behaviors associated with A.D.H.D., received a five out of five except one, which was a four.

“This is my whole angst about the thing,” Dr. Anderson said. “We put a label on something that isn’t binary — you have it or you don’t. We won’t just say that there is a student who has problems in school, problems at home, and probably, according to the doctor with agreement of the parents, will try medical treatment.”

He added, “We might not know the long-term effects, but we do know the short-term costs of school failure, which are real. I am looking to the individual person and where they are right now. I am the doctor for the patient, not for society.”


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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