So there are 3 examples of how people are susceptible to contracting diseases from those that don't get vaccinated and either develop or are carriers of the diseases. So don't try to say it's not a victimless issue when people choose not to get children and even adults vaccinated, because it is not just them they put at risk.
Ok...This is the closest I can get to you taking a position. It's really just a statement. Anyways, you claim that choosing to not get vaccinated is NOT a victimless issue. Great, got it! Understood. But the CDC also states pretty clearly that administering the vaccine isn't a victimless issue either. The severe side effects(though rare) caused by the vaccine could lead to permanent medical conditions such as brain damage and deafness. So, that being the case, who has more rights, the people that have underlying medical conditions that make them susceptible to contracting the disease, or the new born babies that may develop permanent medical conditions due to the vaccine?
Ok...This is the closest I can get to you taking a position. It's really just a statement. Anyways, you claim that choosing to not get vaccinated is NOT a victimless issue. Great, got it! Understood. But the CDC also states pretty clearly that administering the vaccine isn't a victimless issue either. The severe side effects(though rare) caused by the vaccine could lead to permanent medical conditions such as brain damage and deafness. So, that being the case, who has more rights, the people that have underlying medical conditions that make them susceptible to contracting the disease, or the new born babies that may develop permanent medical conditions due to the vaccine?
So you choose to ignore the CDC statement "These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.". Oh, that's right, it's the same sentence you chose to INTENTIONALY NOT INCLUDE in your cut-n-paste!!!! Instead you are just saying the vaccine is to blame...please let the CDC know that you have the proof that they obviously don't!
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
So, that being the case, who has more rights, the people that have underlying medical conditions that make them susceptible to contracting the disease, or the new born babies that may develop permanent medical conditions due to the vaccine?
this is kind of like the abortion question isn't it?
again, I'm pro-choice.
having an abortion is OK for the woman carrying the child, leaving the 'dad' in the lurch and the possible future human out of the equation.
not getting the vaccine is NOT OK because it leaves those most susceptible to the infection at risk and more important than those who wish not to take the risk to have the vaccine.....
who/what choice is most best-est????
come on Box and Joe......make this decision.....don't elect someone else to make it for you...oh, wait.....that's what the military does....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
So you choose to ignore the CDC statement "These are so rare that it is hard to tell whether they are caused by the vaccine.". Oh, that's right, it's the same sentence you chose to INTENTIONALY NOT INCLUDE in your cut-n-paste!!!! Instead you are just saying the vaccine is to blame...please let the CDC know that you have the proof that they obviously don't!
SO WHY DOES THE CDC EVEN LIST THE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS IF IT IS JUST GOING TO PUT IN A SENTENCE THAT STATES THEY HAVE NO PROOF? Does that even make sense? You choose to ignore the listed side effects prior to the sentence that supposedly negates the serious side effects they listed. So which is it joey? Does the side effect the CDC lists occur or don't they? Or do they NOT KNOW? The CDC must have enough evidence the serious side effects like brain damage occur, or a logical person would have to assume they would have listed them as side effects.
SO WHY DOES THE CDC EVEN LIST THE SERIOUS SIDE EFFECTS IF IT IS JUST GOING TO PUT IN A SENTENCE THAT STATES THEY HAVE NO PROOF? Does that even make sense? You choose to ignore the listed side effects prior to the sentence that supposedly negates the serious side effects they listed. So which is it joey? Does the side effect the CDC lists occur or don't they? Or do they NOT KNOW? The CDC must have enough evidence the serious side effects like brain damage occur, or a logical person would have to assume they would have listed them as side effects.
A logical person would conclude that the CDC has listed potential serious side effects that have been reported to them but cannot specifically be linked to the vaccine. So the serious side effects MAY or MAY NOT be directly a result of the vaccine, but there is no proof to substantiate that. That means other factors MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have contributed to the cause of the side effects listed after the individual received the vaccine. That is likely why in the CDC postings they also state that some people cannot receive the vaccine because of other medical conditions. They also state that infants prior to age of vaccination may be infected because they are too young to receive the vaccine and their immune systems are not developed.
So without conclusive evidence and proof, the CDC can only say here are the potential risks, but cannot confirm or deny that they are a result of receiving the vaccine. That's what a logical person can conclude!
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
MMRV vaccine side-effects (Measles, Mumps, Rubella, and Varicella)
What are the risks from MMRV vaccine?
A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions. The risk of MMRV vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small. Ok, so CDC admits vaccines, just like any medication can cause serious problems. Getting MMRV vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps, rubella, or chickenpox.
Most children who get MMRV vaccine do not have any problems with it.
Mild Problems •Fever (about 1 child out of 5).20% chance you will get a fever • Mild rash (about 1 child out of 20). • Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (rare).
If these problems happen, it is usually within 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often after the second dose.
Moderate problems include seizures and bleeding disorders...No big deal for joey though, well worth the risk. Moderate Problems •Seizure caused by fever (about 1 child in 1,250 who get MMRV), usually 5-12 days after the first dose. They happen less often when MMR and varicella vaccines are given at the same visit as separate shots (about 1 child in 2,500 who get these two vaccines), and rarely after a 2nd dose of MMRV. • Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 child out of 40,000).
Now the CDC goes on to measure severe problems, which is fewer than 4 per million. In a nation of 300+ million, you would do the math and figure that 1200 children develop these severe problems. Severe Problems (Very Rare) Several severe problems have been reported following MMR vaccine, and might also happen after MMRV. These include severe allergic reactions (fewer than 4 per million), and problems such as: • Deafness. • Long-term seizures, coma, lowered consciousness. • Permanent brain damage.
Now, in the sentence that I so deceitfully left out, the CDC that just put a 4 per million statistic on severe problems, now puts a sentence in that they are not sure their 4 per million is even accurate. Because these problems occur so rarely, we can’t be sure whether they are caused by the vaccine or not.
This information was taken directly from the MMRV VIS
So after reading all that information, joey focuses in on the last sentence that basically says, the CDC has no fu(king idea if the statistics for side effects listed above are even accurate.
A logical person would conclude that the CDC has listed potential serious side effects that have been reported to them but cannot specifically be linked to the vaccine. So the serious side effects MAY or MAY NOT be directly a result of the vaccine, but there is no proof to substantiate that. That means other factors MIGHT or MIGHT NOT have contributed to the cause of the side effects listed after the individual received the vaccine. That is likely why in the CDC postings they also state that some people cannot receive the vaccine because of other medical conditions. They also state that infants prior to age of vaccination may be infected because they are too young to receive the vaccine and their immune systems are not developed.
So without conclusive evidence and proof, the CDC can only say here are the potential risks, but cannot confirm or deny that they are a result of receiving the vaccine. That's what a logical person can conclude!
Ok, I can agree with some of what you say above. But when the CDC puts number like fewer than 4 out of 1 million could develop serious medical conditions, I would assume they have pretty solid evidence linking it with the vaccine. Without conclusive evidence, there is still a potential risk. The dilemma is, do parents have the right not to vaccinate their children when the potential side effect is a permanent medical condition?
Cissy won't die from Measles, but he's about to die just considering how his GOVT is preventing needless disease for it's citizens. It's killin him!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Nice switcheroo SISSY....now you quote the MMRV so that you have different stats than the MMR that you originally posted...or is it too complicated for you to follow and you get easily confused....
MMR vaccine side-effects (Measles, Mumps, and Rubella)
What are the risks from MMR vaccine?
A vaccine, like any medicine, is capable of causing serious problems, such as severe allergic reactions.
The risk of MMR vaccine causing serious harm, or death, is extremely small.
Getting MMR vaccine is much safer than getting measles, mumps or rubella.
Most people who get MMR vaccine do not have any serious problems with it.
Mild Problems • Fever (up to 1 person out of 6) • Mild rash (about 1 person out of 20) • Swelling of glands in the cheeks or neck (about 1 person out of 75)
If these problems occur, it is usually within 7-12 days after the shot. They occur less often after the second dose.
Moderate Problems • Seizure (jerking or staring) caused by fever (about 1 out of 3,000 doses) • Temporary pain and stiffness in the joints, mostly in teenage or adult women (up to 1 out of 4) • Temporary low platelet count, which can cause a bleeding disorder (about 1 out of 30,000 doses)
Severe Problems (Very Rare) • Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses) • Several other severe problems have been reported after a child gets MMR vaccine, including: ◦ Deafness ◦ Long-term seizures, coma, or lowered consciousness ◦Permanent brain damage
Cissy won't die from Measles, but he's about to die just considering how his GOVT is preventing needless disease for it's citizens. It's killin him!
are all diseases 'needless'?
are mosquitoes needless?
I am not advocating for diseases/viruses/bacteria etc etc.....but they fall within something of the eco system....maybe preventing them contributes to climate change? or maybe evolution of our immune systems does? or maybe we screwed to much with our immune systems(not just with vaccines only) to have any kind of good effect any more?
they say cancer is autoimmune in some research....being that our immune systems are lacking maybe there would be less cancer? or maybe we screwed to much with our water and food supplies making it 'safe' that we screwed our immune systems?
there are so many variables out in the world that the 'best' is a vaccine that 'eradicates' it....really?
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Nice switcheroo SISSY....now you quote the MMRV so that you have different stats than the MMR that you originally posted...or is it too complicated for you to follow and you get easily confused....
[/quote]
Thanks for the correction. It doesn't do much to change the fact the CDC lists numerous side effects for both the MMR and MMRV, that include permanent medical problems.
Thanks for the correction. It doesn't do much to change the fact the CDC lists numerous side effects for both the MMR and MMRV, that include permanent medical problems.
Yah and it also changes your numerical facts! Nice try Sissy...guess you are not as slick as you think!
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
Yah and it also changes your numerical facts! Nice try Sissy...guess you are not as slick as you think!
When I get home and get a chance, I'll recalculate the numbers. I'm pretty confident it won't be ZERO serious side effects according to the CDC numbers. But we'll have to see. Lol
Just running the 1 out of 1 million doses, if every person in America received the MMR vaccine, 330 babies would have serious side effects.
When I get home and get a chance, I'll recalculate the numbers. I'm pretty confident it won't be ZERO serious side effects according to the CDC numbers. But we'll have to see. Lol
Just running the 1 out of 1 million doses, if every person in America received the MMR vaccine, 330 babies would have serious side effects.
CORRECTION: "Serious allergic reaction (less than 1 out of a million doses)"
I wonder what the x out of x million cases of severe issues, similar to those you are focused on, that people contract that have not been vaccinated? Also how many x out of x people have developed serious side effects of MMR diseases that were not vaccinated. Those are the numbers I would want to understand to make a better informed decision. That's what a logical person would do!
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
Logged
