First off, great to see, some typical Neo cons and the libertarians questioning this war. Give me hope! This whole situation is ridiculous why the f are we getting into another war that has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with the United States of America.
Cicero so wants to be independent and not part of any govt, but he just can't help himself...
Well, this is correct...I can't help myself, it's compulsory.
I love box basing his arguments on counterfactuals. Since I benefit for the government you were born into because I had no choice, I must worship it. Box, you know every government around the world can make that very argument? And they do. North Koreans are told the same thing. It's called brainwashing.
Well, this is correct...I can't help myself, it's compulsory.
I love box basing his arguments on counterfactuals. Since I benefit for the government you were born into because I had no choice, I must worship it. Box, you know every government around the world can make that very argument? And they do. North Koreans are told the same thing. It's called brainwashing.
You don't need Govt. You hate every part of our govt. You'd shrink US Govt till it disappeared then whine some more.
If you don't like this govt... then change it. If you don't like the form of govt here in the USA, then try some place else, or buy your own island and proclaim yourself KING FOR LIFE. Cissy wouldn't last a week with out his govt tending to his every need. (No matter how much Cis TAKES, he never wants to GIVE, not his money, his ideas, or his time.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
You don't need Govt. You hate every part of our govt. You'd shrink US Govt till it disappeared then whine some more.
If you don't like this govt... then change it. If you don't like the form of govt here in the USA, then try some place else, or buy your own island and proclaim yourself KING FOR LIFE. Cissy wouldn't last a week with out his govt tending to his every need. (No matter how much Cis TAKES, he never wants to GIVE, not his money, his ideas, or his time.
What a sad perspective you have of humanity. Without people being governed(ruled) by an organization that claims to have a monopoly on violence over those they rule, people wouldn't last a week?
I give everyday box, I go to work and provide a service to a voluntary paying customer. Some weeks are 50-55 hours. I know in your world that doesn't count as "giving", or "time" or "ideas" - that is greedy. I don't coerce the money out of them, if they don't like my service they can decline it. All done with no threats of penalty, fine, or jail.
What a sad perspective you have of humanity. Without people being governed(ruled) by an organization that claims to have a monopoly on violence over those they rule, people wouldn't last a week?
I give everyday box, I go to work and provide a service to a voluntary paying customer. Some weeks are 50-55 hours. I know in your world that doesn't count as "giving", or "time" or "ideas" - that is greedy. I don't coerce the money out of them, if they don't like my service they can decline it. All done with no threats of penalty, fine, or jail.
"people being governed(ruled)"Since Cicero only sees the world as "I" he has no appreciation for "WE". I wonder if he complains when the Fire Dept shows up at his house to put out a fire? I wonder if he complains when they maintain or plow the roads on his way to work. In Cissy's world, they should only plow the roads that Cicero uses... he really doesn't get "WE".
I wonder if it's worth posting the reason for "WE" in our society?
Quoted Text
We the People (NOT I THE PERSON) of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common (NOT PERSONAL) defence, promote the general Welfare (NOT CICERO'S PERSONAL WELFARE), and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves (NOT HIMSELF) and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
"people being governed(ruled)"Since Cicero only sees the world as "I" he has no appreciation for "WE". I wonder if he complains when the Fire Dept shows up at his house to put out a fire? I wonder if he complains when they maintain or plow the roads on his way to work. In Cissy's world, they should only plow the roads that Cicero uses... he really doesn't get "WE".
I wonder if it's worth posting the reason for "WE" in our society?
Box, all those things you mention can be done without coercive powers of government.
I would gladly plow the roads to even help YOU get to work. BUT I CAN'T, I'M NOT ALLOWED, IT'S ILLEGAL FOR CITIZENS TO PLOW ROADS WITHOUT PERMISSION. I WILL BE TICKETED, FINED OR JAILED.
Box, all those things you mention can be done without coercive powers of government.
I would gladly plow the roads to even help YOU get to work. BUT I CAN'T, I'M NOT ALLOWED, IT'S ILLEGAL FOR CITIZENS TO PLOW ROADS WITHOUT PERMISSION. I WILL BE TICKETED, FINED OR JAILED.
So much for "we".
OK... Lets try it out and see how it works. Plow my driveway!
Lets see how that works. Um I don't own a plow, so how am I going to plow MY section of road? And my neighbor doesn't have a plow either... or the guy across the street. So how are we going to take this problem and fix it??? I GOT IT! WE (yes "WE") could all pool our dollars and hire a guy to do it! Capitalism! And we could hire some guy to fight our fires, and hire a security person to police our neighborhoods, and hire a paving contractor to pave our streets, and and and and and ...
And if we all decide that we are more than just an "I"... That collectively our neighborhood is a "WE"... WE might even hire someone to manage all those services and elect the best person to manage these services. He could hire groups of people to do Public Works... (kind of like our Public Works Dept does now). We could even come up with some system of paying for this manager and for all the workers he employes... call it maybe...A TAX!
Pretty soon if we follow this plan, WE WILL HAVE A FUNCTIONING GOVERNMENT.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Box, all those things you mention can be done without coercive powers of government.
I would gladly plow the roads to even help YOU get to work. BUT I CAN'T, I'M NOT ALLOWED, IT'S ILLEGAL FOR CITIZENS TO PLOW ROADS WITHOUT PERMISSION. I WILL BE TICKETED, FINED OR JAILED.
So much for "we".
OK... Lets try it out and see how it works. Plow my driveway!
Lets see how that works. Um I don't own a plow, so how am I going to plow MY section of road? And my neighbor doesn't have a plow either... or the guy across the street. So how are we going to take this problem and fix it??? I GOT IT! WE (yes "WE") could all pool our dollars and hire a guy to do it! Capitalism! And we could hire some guy to fight our fires, and hire a security person to police our neighborhoods, and hire a paving contractor to pave our streets, and and and and and ...
And if we all decide that we are more than just an "I"... That collectively our neighborhood is a "WE"... WE might even hire someone to manage all those services and elect the best person to manage these services. He could hire groups of people to do Public Works... (kind of like our Public Works Dept does now). We could even come up with some system of paying for this manager and for all the workers he employes... call it maybe...A TAX!
Pretty soon if we follow this plan, WE WILL HAVE A FUNCTIONING GOVERNMENT.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Box, all those things you mention can be done without coercive powers of government.
I would gladly plow the roads to even help YOU get to work. BUT I CAN'T, I'M NOT ALLOWED, IT'S ILLEGAL FOR CITIZENS TO PLOW ROADS WITHOUT PERMISSION. I WILL BE TICKETED, FINED OR JAILED.
So much for "we".
OK... Lets try it out and see how it works. Plow my driveway!
Lets see how that works. Um I don't own a plow, so how am I going to plow MY section of road? And my neighbor doesn't have a plow either... or the guy across the street. So how are we going to fix this problem???
I GOT IT! WE (yes "WE") could all pool our dollars and hire a guy to do it! Capitalism! And we could hire some guy to fight our fires, and hire a security person to police our neighborhoods, and hire a paving contractor to pave our streets, and and and and and ...
And if we all decide that we are more than just an "I"... That collectively our neighborhood is a "WE"... WE might even hire someone to manage all those services and elect the best person to manage these services. He could hire groups of people to do Public Works... (kind of like our Public Works Dept does now). We could even come up with some system of paying for this manager and for all the workers he employes... call it maybe...A TAX!
Pretty soon if we follow this plan, WE WILL HAVE A FUNCTIONING GOVERNMENT.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Whatever concerns you may have about President Obama ceding too much power to Congress, you have to admit that if he wanted to ignite a civil war between the isolationist and interventionist wings of the Republican Party, he could hardly have picked a better way to do it.
Their common opposition to all things Obama is probably not enough to keep them from tearing themselves apart over the Syria vote.
If so much wasn't at stake, this would be a lot of fun to watch.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
OK... Lets try it out and see how it works. Plow my driveway!
Lets see how that works. Um I don't own a plow, so how am I going to plow MY section of road? And my neighbor doesn't have a plow either... or the guy across the street. So how are we going to fix this problem???
I GOT IT! WE (yes "WE") could all pool our dollars and hire a guy to do it! Capitalism! And we could hire some guy to fight our fires, and hire a security person to police our neighborhoods, and hire a paving contractor to pave our streets, and and and and and ...
And if we all decide that we are more than just an "I"... That collectively our neighborhood is a "WE"... WE might even hire someone to manage all those services and elect the best person to manage these services. He could hire groups of people to do Public Works... (kind of like our Public Works Dept does now). We could even come up with some system of paying for this manager and for all the workers he employes... call it maybe...A TAX!
Pretty soon if we follow this plan, WE WILL HAVE A FUNCTIONING GOVERNMENT.
Then "we" can hire code enforcement officers, building inspectors, and assessors that go to everybodies private property and tell them how much "we" think their private property is worth so "we" can tax them efficiently. And then "we" can send the code enforcement officers and building inspectors around town to demand permits and regulate anything "we" do on their private property, like installing a pool or remodeling their bathroom, because "we" need to make sure the other "we" are living according to the standards "we" set. Then "we" can use a thing called imminent domain to take the other "we" private property to use it how "we" think it should be used, as long as a majority of "we" agree that the other "we" don't have a right to their private property. Then "we" can create zoning laws to make sure the affluent "we" can limit the not so affluent "we" ability to use their private property as "we" wish.
I guess this is what 'We the People' meant when describing liberty in the preamble of the Constitution. "We" meant a simple majority that the minority must live by. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Then "we" can hire code enforcement officers, building inspectors, and assessors that go to everybodies private property and tell them how much "we" think their private property is worth so "we" can tax them efficiently. And then "we" can send the code enforcement officers and building inspectors around town to demand permits and regulate anything "we" do on their private property, like installing a pool or remodeling their bathroom, because "we" need to make sure the other "we" are living according to the standards "we" set. Then "we" can use a thing called imminent domain to take the other "we" private property to use it how "we" think it should be used, as long as a majority of "we" agree that the other "we" don't have a right to their private property. Then "we" can create zoning laws to make sure the affluent "we" can limit the not so affluent "we" ability to use their private property as "we" wish.
I guess this is what 'We the People' meant when describing liberty in the preamble of the Constitution. "We" meant a simple majority that the minority must live by. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Cissy has a problem with authority... and it goes far beyond some code enforcement officer.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Cicero must have been entertaining in grade school... 2nd grade teacher: "Now class take out your history book and turn to page 42."
Cicero: "What! I'm not taking out any f'n book and no way you can make me turn to any specific page! This is America, you can't make me! I refuse to be oppressed by your illegitimate authority to instruct me."
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Cicero: "What! I'm not taking out any f'n book and no way you can make me turn to any specific page! This is America, you can't make me! I refuse to be oppressed by your illegitimate authority to instruct me."
I wish I had known about compulsory schooling by 2nd grade. I would have challenged the reason for the daily pledge of allegiance, and the lionizing of Lincoln the murder and FDR, instead of being indoctrinated to believe they are American hero's because some state worker told me so.
School curriculum for determining heroic president - who killed the most people in the name of the flag is most heroic. That's why Barack has to go into Syria, he needs to increase his body count to make the school history books as a hero or liberator. In 100 year, GW Bush will be one of the great presidents, he fits the formula. Nation attacked by terrorist, kills thousands, he retaliates by invading 2 countries and bombing 7 others, death toll in the millions - AMERICAN HERO! Kindergarteners will be dressing up like GW Bush and singing songs of praise, and coloring pictures of him a century from now, being told how he saved the country.
Logged
Cissy has a problem with authority... and it goes far beyond some code enforcement officer.
