Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

Now -- returning to the actual topic of the thread.  

.....

Now, the study only shows the average annual increase in tax rates over a 30 year period.  

There you go again.   You can't even comprehend what you read.   The Gazette article said increase in tax LEVY, and now YOU are saying the "....in tax RATES...."

You don't have the remotest clue what you are talking about.



Based on what I provided as evidence when YOU talked about the tax RATE increase, tell me DV, what happened to the tax RATE in Mohon between 10 years ago and the tax year ending next month??????

Well??????  

A friend of mine lives on California Avenue, across from JP gas.

His home is over assessed at $131,000.

Full market value $106,000.

Taxes $6,000 a year.

$3,000 for school tax and $3,000 for city/county taxes.

His taxes have doubled since 2005.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

I will go one step further and partially answer that question in relation to the school districts in Schenectady County.  The county is too small to justify having 6 public school districts.  Wasting money on buying new land for (in some cases) and building new buildings and additions in some districts -- while other neighboring districts had a surplus of classroom space - was not wise and prudent.  You could have 1 district for administration purposes and still provide neighborhood elementary schools but better utilize middle and high school space if we were to consolidate the 6 district into 1.

You sound like you want Shenendehowa II... and that would be exactly what you would get if you combine Schalmont, Mohon, Nisky, Schenectady, Scotia Glenville, and Duanesburg....except bigger. Trust me, if you value your kids school experience, you do NOT want that. Adding those 6 schools up, you're looking at a graduating class of around 1800 students...and that's a conservative estimate. One district means one varsity team for each sport, one marching band, one Orchestra, one HS musical cast, and one valedictorian and salutatorian. You would save tons of money, but the kids experience would SUCK.

The only consolidation that would make sense would be Schalmont + Duanesburg, or possibly those two + Mohon...

Quoted from 55tbird

You sound like you want Shenendehowa II... and that would be exactly what you would get if you combine Schalmont, Mohon, Nisky, Schenectady, Scotia Glenville, and Duanesburg....except bigger. Trust me, if you value your kids school experience, you do NOT want that. Adding those 6 schools up, you're looking at a graduating class of around 1800 students...and that's a conservative estimate. One district means one varsity team for each sport, one marching band, one Orchestra, one HS musical cast, and one valedictorian and salutatorian. You would save tons of money, but the kids experience would SUCK.

The only consolidation that would make sense would be Schalmont + Duanesburg, or possibly those two + Mohon...

I have laid out this argument before -- I have NEVER said 1 high school.  I have said 1 school district .. combine the 6 separate district administrative offices into 1 .. that means 1 superintendent instead of 6, 1 business manager instead of 6, and so on...

Schenectady County could very easily accommodate  2 to 3 high schools ... east side, west side and north side.  

Elementary schools would remain in the neighborhoods -- but now we can do things logistically .. kids who now live in the Mohonasen District near 5 Corners could actually go to Jefferson School rather than be hauled by bus over to the school on Kings Road.

One school district means that resources could be better utilized -- not necessarily one band or musical/school play .. but one greatly enhanced Music Program or Arts Program or Athletic Program.  BTW - I think too much emphasis is spent on varsity sports that only benefit a few.   I'd rather see public school tax dollars be spend on Life Sports/Intramural Sports that ALL of the students could benefit from.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

I have laid out this argument before -- I have NEVER said 1 high school.  I have said 1 school district .. combine the 6 separate district administrative offices into 1 .. that means 1 superintendent instead of 6, 1 business manager instead of 6, and so on...

Schenectady County could very easily accommodate  2 to 3 high schools ... east side, west side and north side.  

Elementary schools would remain in the neighborhoods -- but now we can do things logistically .. kids who now live in the Mohonasen District near 5 Corners could actually go to Jefferson School rather than be hauled by bus over to the school on Kings Road.

One school district means that resources could be better utilized -- not necessarily one band or musical/school play .. but one greatly enhanced Music Program or Arts Program or Athletic Program.  BTW - I think too much emphasis is spent on varsity sports that only benefit a few.   I'd rather see public school tax dollars be spend on Life Sports/Intramural Sports that ALL of the students could benefit from.

I understand the theory, but a lot has to change to make it happen.. Until you eliminate property taxes as a way of funding schools, you will get a TON of push back from the Suburban parents. Many of these parents pay high school taxes to be able to send their kids to a better school (i.e. Niskayuna). Housing values in the suburbs will crash if a county-school formula is adopted. In addition, it's no secret that teachers in those suburban districts get paid more than city districts. You can equalize the pay of the city teachers, but since salaries are benes are the biggest percentage of the school budget, you might have blown up the savings of consolidation.
Using administration as a county service might make sense, but the cultural aspect of a county school system is something people are probably not ready for.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

I have laid out this argument before -- I have NEVER said 1 high school.  I have said 1 school district .. combine the 6 separate district administrative offices into 1 .. that means 1 superintendent instead of 6, 1 business manager instead of 6, and so on...

Schenectady County could very easily accommodate  2 to 3 high schools ... east side, west side and north side.  

Elementary schools would remain in the neighborhoods -- but now we can do things logistically .. kids who now live in the Mohonasen District near 5 Corners could actually go to Jefferson School rather than be hauled by bus over to the school on Kings Road.

...

But of course, one who has never been nor will ever be a daddy, never have a child, does not pay taxes, has never nor will ever shop for a house, has no knowledge.

The FACT is, that if there was one district, the kids as you are talking about near 5 corners will NOT be able to go to Jefferson, they will have to be HAULED ALL THE WAY over to Hamilton Hill!    And vice versa.

Kids from the worst neighborhoods in Schenectady will have to be HAULED out to Glenville perhaps.

Remember, racial balance.

There was a time when someone might have bought a house in a nice neighborhood in Schenectady thinking their children would to go the school in that neighborhood.  But then the kids were hauled over to the Hamilton Hill neighborhood, and vice versa because federal law orders racial balance.  It had gotten to the point which a family moves to a house, they were assigned a certain grade school, but they went to the middle school relatively in that neighborhood, but then that was changed so that everyone in a certain grade school had to go to a certain middle school and "be hauled by bus" to a middle school further away.  Then of course so many changes, even without parents moving, their kids might have been forced to change elementary school 2 or 3 times, maybe start out in one middle school and finish in a different one.  

Hell, DV, back a little over 20 years ago, the Schenectady city school district did a "redistricting" to get racial balance, and a year later, the racial balance was worse!   And of course the district had to do more changes.  This is upsetting to parents.  But then, as you are neither a parent nor a taxpayer, you wouldn't understand.

All this costs a ton of money, DV, and since you are NOT a taxpayer, you have to clue.

Currently the federal government does not, to my knowledge, force parents to send their children to a school in a different school district in order to achieve the mandated racial balance.  That is, the federal government does not force parents in Nisky to send their kids to grade school in Hamilton hill nor vice versa.

Make one district and kids will have to be "hauled" (as you call it) all over the place, it will require purchases of many new buses.  Since you are not a taxpayer, you don't know that buses cost money.  And DV, there must be insurance on those buses, and more buses mean more insurance.  Buses driving longer distances will mean insurance.  More buses will mean more gasoline costs.  More buses will require more mechanics, more maintenance, more parts.   Even the state of NY will have to increase taxes to hire more employees to do the bus inspections.  

You have no clue about the increase in cost.  

There have been quite a number of incidents in the neighborhood around the high school, the vandalism by students.  Those kids currently in the city being bused other locations are not magically going to stop their actions because they go to a different school building.  They may vandalize where you are, but since you are not invested in a home. you won't lose anything.  And if these incidents spread to other areas of the county, it will cause an increase in police costs.  In face, with all the fire started at Schenectady HS, there could be more such incidents throughout the county, more financial impact on fire departments.  Homeowner insurance premiums could increase; that would be similar to auto insurance premiums as there have been multitudes of reports of higher insurance premiums in zip codes within the city vs outside of the city.  So the taxpayers will incur higher costs that are not even taxes.

Some need to get an education in life; education that can be obtained by only growing up and becoming a normal adult, leaving the nest, having their own place and completely and entirely support themselves.

It's true. Consolidation will result in higher costs due to busing. Former NYS Education Commissioner Sobol was advocating for busing on a regional basis, (he thought that a bus ride of up to an hour and a half each way was reasonable) but that idea seems to have been dropped for now. Probably because HUD has plans to bring the ghetto to suburbia, under the guise of Climate Change policy. This may sound like conspiracy theory stuff, but it is real.
California Avenue, across from commercial property, smallish house, 6k. I know someone in Niskayuna with a similar property, but with a double lot, they pay under 5k. Real life examples give a much different picture than the misleading articles in the paper.

sooooooooooooo.......has mc1 given proof that s/he lives in or out of the city of Schenectady?
hmmmmmm

Quoted from 55tbird

I understand the theory, but a lot has to change to make it happen.. Until you eliminate property taxes as a way of funding schools, you will get a TON of push back from the Suburban parents. Many of these parents pay high school taxes to be able to send their kids to a better school (i.e. Niskayuna). Housing values in the suburbs will crash if a county-school formula is adopted. In addition, it's no secret that teachers in those suburban districts get paid more than city districts. You can equalize the pay of the city teachers, but since salaries are benes are the biggest percentage of the school budget, you might have blown up the savings of consolidation.
Using administration as a county service might make sense, but the cultural aspect of a county school system is something people are probably not ready for.

I would say that I agree with almost everything that you say.  However, we have to start looking at some reform or change to the existing system.  Keeping the status quo is a recipe for disaster.  
I agree 100% with you that we need to eliminate property tax as the way to fund public schools.  But that will take a lot of work to convince the state legislature and governor to do.  
Right now somewhere between 40 to 55% of the cost of public education comes through some form of state aid.  The state aid formula is seriously flawed.  No state legislator will even dare attempt to reform it.   I remember trying to have a conversation with a certain (now former) state legislator who represented the western half of Schenectady County and trying to explain that the simplest, most equitable school aid program was to give X amount of $ for every elementary school student, Y amount of $ for every middle school student and Z amount of $ for every high school student in each district.   No more of this giving more money to the school districts that are politically connected and screwing the ones that are not.  This legislator claimed that he couldn't understand how a system where every school district was treated equally would work.  The last time that I saw that former state legislator, he was building a bridge to no where.

Anyway -- as I said I do agree with you -- it will be difficult to change culture and change minds -- but I think that you and I have at least proven that it is possible to respectfully and intelligently begin the conversation.  I hope that we can continue this and other conversations in the same way.

Enjoy the rest of this beautiful day.

Quoted from Madam X

It's true. Consolidation will result in higher costs due to busing. Former NYS Education Commissioner Sobol was advocating for busing on a regional basis, (he thought that a bus ride of up to an hour and a half each way was reasonable) but that idea seems to have been dropped for now. Probably because HUD has plans to bring the ghetto to suburbia, under the guise of Climate Change policy. This may sound like conspiracy theory stuff, but it is real.
California Avenue, across from commercial property, smallish house, 6k. I know someone in Niskayuna with a similar property, but with a double lot, they pay under 5k. Real life examples give a much different picture than the misleading articles in the paper.

Having worked for a school bus company for many years, I can tell you that 90 minutes on the bus each way is acceptable for both Albany and Schenectady counties.

My wife has been a dispatcher of school buses for over 20 years.

The counties will not split a bus route unless it is more than 90 minutes each way.

But here is what was different about Sobol's ideas - a child living in some place like Cairo could find herself riding a bus to Albany schools. I remember talking to a parent about what I saw on television, the interview with the then commissioner, because I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It turned out I must have been the only person watching. Anyway, the parent I spoke to said his kids would never get bused to somewhere like Albany or Schenectady because he lived too far away. I pointed out that he was making the long commute daily, and if he could get to Albany in under 1.5 hours so could his children. Sobol had a lot of extremist views. He stated the wish "if we could get them by age 2"... he was basically wishing to have the government raise all children.
The new commissioner is a reject from Florida.

Quoted from Madam X

But here is what was different about Sobol's ideas - a child living in some place like Cairo could find herself riding a bus to Albany schools. I remember talking to a parent about what I saw on television, the interview with the then commissioner, because I couldn't believe what I was hearing. It turned out I must have been the only person watching. Anyway, the parent I spoke to said his kids would never get bused to somewhere like Albany or Schenectady because he lived too far away. I pointed out that he was making the long commute daily, and if he could get to Albany in under 1.5 hours so could his children. Sobol had a lot of extremist views. He stated the wish "if we could get them by age 2"... he was basically wishing to have the government raise all children.
The new commissioner is a reject from Florida.

2 year olds ride the bus to preschool every day now.

Yes they do, but it is by their parents' choice.

Quoted from Madam X

Yes they do, but it is by their parents' choice.

It currently  costs millions of dollars a year to transport just the handicapped/developmentally disabled preschoolers in Albany, Schenectady and Saratoga counties.

Some parents actually do transport their own children and the county pays them directly.

Current transportation rates are $40 a day per child, or $250-$350 a day per busload.

Busloads are determined by the amount of time spent on the bus.

In the city you can deliver more children in the allotted time, but in the suburbs, buses often transport less than half a dozen per busload, due to the miles between stops and the distance to the schools.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

I have laid out this argument before -- I have NEVER said 1 high school.  I have said 1 school district .. combine the 6 separate district administrative offices into 1 .. that means 1 superintendent instead of 6, 1 business manager instead of 6, and so on...

Schenectady County could very easily accommodate  2 to 3 high schools ... east side, west side and north side.  

Elementary schools would remain in the neighborhoods -- but now we can do things logistically .. kids who now live in the Mohonasen District near 5 Corners could actually go to Jefferson School rather than be hauled by bus over to the school on Kings Road.

One school district means that resources could be better utilized -- not necessarily one band or musical/school play .. but one greatly enhanced Music Program or Arts Program or Athletic Program.  BTW - I think too much emphasis is spent on varsity sports that only benefit a few.   I'd rather see public school tax dollars be spend on Life Sports/Intramural Sports that ALL of the students could benefit from.

Transportation from the Mohonasen area to Jefferson instead of King's Rd would not save any significant amount. The same drivers, monitors, vehicle costs, maintenance, etc, would still be utilized. The only possible savings would be a few miles or less for each of the buses to travel.

If you really want to save money, shift one or 2 days a week to online classes only for students.

Every class does not need to be "in person" classrooms.

Multiple teachers, teaching the same classes is redundant, wasteful and expensive.

Any child old enough to be home without a babysitter should be taking classes online.

Give every kid an Ipad.

An Ipad is cheaper than 10 days of bus transportation.

Even if you only had each teenage student take online classes one day a week, it would save millions of dollars.

The actual reason for schools is to educate children, not to preserve teaching jobs.