I'm oblivious? Really? I don't think so. I know that of which I speak from personal experience.
Some of you said that drug dealing/use was victimless. Period. That's what some have stated and that is false.
Then the argument changed to the government creates the victims? Go back to your original assertion and take it literally. You answered my inquiry based on a changed argument. I'm not oblivious.
I agree with your point about prohibition. But that wasn't the original assertion.
Now, give me my freakin' drugs!!! Restore my liberty! I'm serious! Except pot, not a fan.
When you are loaded, who cares what your pharmacist thinks[b][/b]
Before I go into a tirade about the population with a chronic Vicodin deficiency, I’ll do some preemptive damage control here.
If you are taking narcotics to treat chronic pain so you can live a normal life, that’s fine. OBVIOUSLY this doesn’t apply to you. Read, and share in the anger towards the people who are ruining it for you. Justifying your position with a 10 page comment is just wasting your time (we don’t really care to be honest).
If you are taking narcotics to get loaded because your life sucks balls and you want to get high, that’s fine too. But know that you’re a f**king addict and I hope your die a slow painful death for ruining it for the legit people. Don’t try to justify your position because you’re a f**king addict and we have tuned out the bullshit lies that come out of your mouth. Yes, I said the Addict word, get used to it. This site is not “politically correct” or “professional”, its Angry and realistic.
Pharmacists don’t think this way about all people, just the ones who make themselves stand out from the crowd. We call these PIA customers, both for Pay In Advance (ever see a legit check from someone who gets nothing but Vicodin/Valium/Soma? I haven’t!) and Pain In the a** (read on!).
Its a known fact that the moment that a prescription is written for Vicodin and Soma, your IQ drops about 150 points and a black cloud of bad luck ruins your day. Suddenly your checks somehow bounce and you have cash for cigs and a cell phone, but not your copays. You suddenly are prone to leaving your pain pills on the bus, on vacation, in your hotel, in your (now impounded) car, stolen, dropped in the sink, excuse, excuse, excuse. You cannot do simple math, and your stories become so obviously made-up that they should come with a shovel. You call up obviously loaded out of your f**king skull to try and spoon feed us such the nastiest line of fake bullshit in an attempt to get your narcs early. Your entire family seems to suddenly die (which requires you to take twice the amount to “cope”). Half the time I’m not sure if I should just laugh at the bullshit or be embarrassed that you would think I would actually believe that.
I really wish we could speak our minds, and to be honest its getting to a point where we’re going to have to. Leaving your purse on vacation with your narcs in them should be a lesson to keep better track of your sh*t. If those pain pills were SO important to you, how would you even think of leaving them places (except if this is a crock of sh*t story, which it usually is). The words “too f**king bad” comes into my head, but I really don’t have the balls to tell a patient this. Usually these patients have small children! Small children! Ban Vicodin and Soma! Think of the children!
However, when you call, and you are so f**king loaded that your slurred speech sounds like another language as you give us this story (that makes no sense) to get your pain pills early; know that I’m going to write on the call-tag to the doctor “Patient requesting early refill. Will have patient call office to explain story”. Almost guaranteed denial right there. Pharmacy – 1, Lying Addict - 0. Lie better next time, don’t act drunk and/or loaded on the phone.
Who really gets fucked out of this deal are the legit pain management people. The people who are on-time, are nice on the phone, who are never early, and who are taking these drugs for the intended purpose. After getting fucked over by 40 addicts, a pharmacist cant help but be initially jaded towards the 1 new legit pain management patient. You may think that we are assholes, but if you shovel sh*t all day, everything starts to smell like sh*t after a while. Yeah, it sucks, however pharmacists (if they want to keep their license) are pretty much forced by the addicts to always have their guard up. Addicts f**king lie to get what they want, that’s why are they are addicts and not legit pain management patients. If every red car on the road is being driven by a drunk driver, and you see about 10 accidents every day involving a red car, don’t you think you’ll be leery of every red car on the road? Don’t b**ch to us saying we’re “unfair” or “mean”, b**ch at the addicts who are ruining it for you.
Plus, some doctors are wimps when it comes to putting their foot down and saying no to early refills. If a doctor tells me “do not fill until ”, I have no problem telling some idiot that I can fill it on this day. The crackhead may whine, and b**ch, and even cry or call me names, but I don’t really care (it just gives me more to write here!). If the addict calls me more than 2 times regarding this date, I f**king boot them and tell them to go somewhere else. However doctors who are girl private pushovers make it hard for me to do this. Hard to be an a**hole when our MD partner is a pansy pushover who caves in to every sob story out there (and believe me, I’ve had stuff auth’d early when the story was so bullshit I almost laughed at them).
But what really twiddles my neither-regions is when a patient goes “out of town”, and you call them at home 3 days into their “trip” and they answer. Holy f**king backpedaling. “Hey, since you didn’t go on your trip, can you bring those narcs you got filled early back to the pharmacy, they are due in a week and it looks like you didn’t go out of town” gives you the response of “uhh, I cant”. Yeah, CANT BECAUSE YOU TOOK THEM ALL ALREADY.
Not all the negative effects of drug use are due to the laws. I am not saying the laws are good but don't pretend that if the drugs were legal that they still wouldn't fu*k up people's lives. Just look at alcohol--legal and still a destructi e force. Legal and still leaves a load of victims in its wake.
I'm in total agreement with you, and yes, I do know addicts, I work closely with a recovering heroine addict.
The premise of my argument is that prohibition did nothing to prevent addiction. I never claimed legalizing drugs would end drug addiction. That would be as silly as believing prohibition will end addiction.
There are BILLIONS of dollars spent each year chasing around drug dealers, then prosecuting, and jailing both dealers and addicts. Then, on the flip side, kids are being denied treatment for addiction because its too expensive, upward of $50k for a couple of months of treatment. Now I'm not for social medicine, but if I have to live with it, I think the billions spent paying cops, detectives, prosecutors and corrections officers to deal with addicts, I believe that money would be much better spent on treatment.
Did you only read one sentence of what I wrote? I stated that the drug laws are a failure but the effects of certain drugs are destructi e regardless of the laws that are associated with them. Do you know any addicts? Do you know anyone who has lost a parent or child, of have you lost a friend be jade thy ODed due to a thing called tolerance? Have you had your friend and roommate steal all of your money because they blew through all of their money buying herion-a drug that is extremely cheap and accessible. Do you know anyone who had their children taken away because mom was so strung out that when the kids tried to make their own dinner they set the house on fire and mom couldn't get it together enough to ensure they were safe.
Not all the negative effects of drug use are due to the laws. I am not saying the laws are good but don't pretend that if the drugs were legal that they still wouldn't fu*k up people's lives. Just look at alcohol--legal and still a destructi e force. Legal and still leaves a load of victims in its wake.
Drug use itself is a victimless crime, if someone steals from you to fund their habit then there is a victim and one should be charged for stealing since you would be the victim. I don't think anyone here is encouraging drug use and everyone knows the dangers, but like anything abuse is the problem, many people can control their drinking or drug use, some can not.
"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."
Did you only read one sentence of what I wrote? I stated that the drug laws are a failure but the effects of certain drugs are destructi e regardless of the laws that are associated with them. Do you know any addicts? Do you know anyone who has lost a parent or child, of have you lost a friend be jade thy ODed due to a thing called tolerance? Have you had your friend and roommate steal all of your money because they blew through all of their money buying herion-a drug that is extremely cheap and accessible. Do you know anyone who had their children taken away because mom was so strung out that when the kids tried to make their own dinner they set the house on fire and mom couldn't get it together enough to ensure they were safe.
Not all the negative effects of drug use are due to the laws. I am not saying the laws are good but don't pretend that if the drugs were legal that they still wouldn't fu*k up people's lives. Just look at alcohol--legal and still a destructi e force. Legal and still leaves a load of victims in its wake.
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Do you know any addicts?
Yes, I've known hundreds.
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Do you know anyone who has lost a parent or child, of have you lost a friend be jade thy ODed due to a thing called tolerance?
Yes, I've known many people who have overdosed, and it has nothing to do with "tolerance" All tolerance means, is that their body is able to take more drugs, so it takes them more of that specific drug to get "high" once they've built up a tolerance to it. Fully most unintentional ODs, occur due to the inconsistency of purity of the drug, and legalization would ensure that when you mean to take 20mg, you are actually getting 20mg, and not 15mg, or even 150mg. Currently, it's like taking an aspirin, and not being told if there is 81mg, of the active ingredient, or 500mg in each pill. Ummm "be jade thy ODed"???? What does that mean? Is it the secret language of twins?
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Have yo had your friend and roommate steal all of your money because they blew through all of their money buying herion-a drug that is extremely cheap and accessible
People wouldn't be stealing if their fix cost them 50cents, like it should, instead of $150, which it is now, due to it's illegality. Some countries actually provide heroin (that's how it's spelled BTW) to the addicts, so that they don't need to steal, or sell their bodies, but then again, those countries don't have by far the highest incareation rate in the world, the way we do.
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Do you know anyone who had their children taken away because mom was so strung out that when the kids tried to make their own dinner they set the house on fire and mom couldn't get it together enough to ensure they were safe.
Bad parenting, is just bad parenting, and far more "parents" are strung out, passed out, or just plain neglectful due to alcohol than all other drugs combined.
So sorry Tommy that the little keyboard on my phone causes typos. I don't have a computer, just a phone, and I'm not as agile on it as I'd like to be.
Tolerance doesn't mean the body can take more, it means that one needs more to feel the effects. It doesn't mean the body is going to process higher and higher amounts with no ill effect.
And I don't know where your friends are getting their drugs but not too long ago you could get a decent amount for $10-20 dollars at just about any rest stop south of Albany.
Portugal decriminalized drugs and it has had overall good effects- lowered drug use, lowered HIV rates-but treatment has more than doubled. Why? Cause even when legal drugs fu*k up your life, and the lives of the people you associate with.
There are plenty of reasons to decriminalize drugs, but "because they don't hurt anyone" is not one of the reasons.
So sorry Tommy that the little keyboard on my phone causes typos. I don't have a computer, just a phone, and I'm not as agile on it as I'd like to be.
Tolerance doesn't mean the body can take more, it means that one needs more to feel the effects. It doesn't mean the body is going to process higher and higher amounts with no ill effect.
And I don't know where your friends are getting their drugs but not too long ago you could get a decent amount for $10-20 dollars at just about any rest stop south of Albany.
Portugal decriminalized drugs and it has had overall good effects- lowered drug use, lowered HIV rates-but treatment has more than doubled. Why? Cause even when legal drugs fu*k up your life, and the lives of the people you associate with.
There are plenty of reasons to decriminalize drugs, but "because they don't hurt anyone" is not one of the reasons.
Sure, heroin is cheaper than ever. A bag now costs around $20, however, it is not as strong as it used to be, and meeting people who do a bundle (10 bags) or more, is not uncommon.
Ummm, "friends"? No, it's nothing like that. Well, kind of I guess.
Did you only read one sentence of what I wrote? I stated that the drug laws are a failure but the effects of certain drugs are destructi e regardless of the laws that are associated with them. Do you know any addicts? Do you know anyone who has lost a parent or child, of have you lost a friend be jade thy ODed due to a thing called tolerance? Have you had your friend and roommate steal all of your money because they blew through all of their money buying herion-a drug that is extremely cheap and accessible. Do you know anyone who had their children taken away because mom was so strung out that when the kids tried to make their own dinner they set the house on fire and mom couldn't get it together enough to ensure they were safe.
Not all the negative effects of drug use are due to the laws. I am not saying the laws are good but don't pretend that if the drugs were legal that they still wouldn't fu*k up people's lives. Just look at alcohol--legal and still a destructive force. Legal and still leaves a load of victims in its wake.
I had a brother who ran a crack house in Strong Street for 10 years, he robbed every family member he knew, he stole everything he could get his hands on. His home was covered in bullet holes. His walls had sheet metal stacked against them. Drugs do cause people to lie, steal and kill. No question about it. Enforcement of drug laws are 100,000 times more deadly and brutal. My brother ending up stealing a friends vehicle and ended up in the crack capital of the world, Los Angeles, where he was taken in by the church and helped to end his addiction. He came back to Schenectady and went back to school and became a machinist. He now works for the railroad and makes close to a 6 figure salary. He is a home owner and lives a normal quiet life. No life in a cage for 15 years would have given him that kind of result.
I'm not saying drugs are not bad and don't have unintended consequences, I'm saying that drug laws have unbelievable devastating affects on entire families driven into bankruptcy and their family member who was the drug addiction becomes a person who' life is destroyed forever.
The drug war took out many of Schenectady's cops in the corrupt game of drug dealing and turning neighbor against neighbor. Millions of families have been destroyed and continue to be destroyed every day from drug enforcement.
All this is further added to by the unbelievable spending and get rich quick enticement for law enforcement. The amount of money spent enforcing drug laws could never be spent on addiction treatment. And if it was, it would be humane and productive, not inhumane, deadly and destructive.
Plus my taxes and yours are wasted on drug enforcement that does nothing but give birth to second and third generation gangsters, more deadly than the last. Gangs and gang violence is not a result of drug use or addiction. It is a result of a lifestyle of war against the police and government, who actively seeks to destroy their lives for fun and profit.
Drug addiction is a medical condition not curable by automatic weapons and tactical assault squads. Each of the drug prisoners comes out of prison much more hardened and dangerous than when they were kidnapped from society.
Drug laws create the Nazi look every time you drive down a street and see the cops searching cars at gunpoint. Generations are taught to hate the police because of the drug war. Police should be performing services that keep people safe, not that violate the right to travel freely and live in a non-police state.
Trillions of dollars wasted.
No net results.
As Cicero has stated, at least all those with the old drug war mentality are a dying breed and the next generation will make the changes to deal with drug use and addiction in a humane and violence free manner.
Fully most unintentional ODs, occur due to the inconsistency of purity of the drug, and legalization would ensure that when you mean to take 20mg, you are actually getting 20mg, and not 15mg, or even 150mg.
Correct, a couple years back there were many deaths from black tar heroine that users didn't know was much more potent. These deaths are due to unregulated quality and standardization.
People wouldn't be stealing if their fix cost them 50cents, like it should, instead of $150, which it is now, due to it's illegality. Some countries actually provide heroin (that's how it's spelled BTW) to the addicts, so that they don't need to steal, or sell their bodies, but then again, those countries don't have by far the highest incarceration rate in the world, the way we do.
The drug war has stolen billions upon billions from the economy.
Bad parenting, is just bad parenting, and far more "parents" are strung out, passed out, or just plain neglectful due to alcohol than all other drugs combined.
Sometimes even good parenting will result in a drug addicted child.
The parents can only instill good values in the child and they must choose their own path.
Portugal decriminalized drugs and it has had overall good effects- lowered drug use, lowered HIV rates-but treatment has more than doubled. Why? Cause even when legal drugs fu*k up your life, and the lives of the people you associate with.
There are plenty of reasons to decriminalize drugs, but "because they don't hurt anyone" is not one of the reasons.
I totally agree.
Drugs destroy families and take lives.
Magnify it 100,000 times and you have the effects of drug law enforcement and taxpayer drain.
As stated above, Portugal hasn't turned into anarchy and mayhem.
Agreed. So don't get all up in arms Case in point: For years and years, buying a hypodermic needle without a prescription was illegal, supposedly to prevent intravenous drug use. It prevented NOTHING. People from needle exchange programs were harassed and arrested, even though their only intention was harm reduction, and disease prevention.
Then one day, very quietly (far too quietly) , then governor Pataki made it legal for anyone that wanted one to walk into any drug store and purchase a syringe. (BTW, they're now only considered as drug paraphernalia if they are found along with drugs, a burned up spoon, or other evidence of drug usage)
So guess what happened? No, guess. Mr and Mrs America, all the guys at the V.F.W. Post, and all the girls at the office did not exclaim in one voice,"syringes are legal? lets mainline some drugs!" Grandma's idea of "catching up on her needle work", still consists of sewing. General usage of IV drug use since then, went down, not up.
Ya know what DIDN'T happen? Thousands of cases of HIV/AIDS, that the taxpayer gets to pay for. It's called "harm reduction".
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Prison has immediate openings with no waiting lists.
It also has no positive results.
That depends. If you are a cop, prosecutor, corrections officer, lawyer, judge, prison contractor (supplier) etc (I could type for an hour and still not list all of the welfare queens that are getting rich from the current drug policy), then they more than positive results.
Remember the Rockefeller drug law (it's still in effect to some degree)? 20 YEARS for a single ounce of pot! The only ones that opposed it's reformation, were the prison guards union as they ran these commercials (almost non-stop) with a silhouette of a mother holding her infant, with a superimposed image of a big scary black man, implying that if the drug laws were changed, this giant Mandingo is going to break into you home, rape you, and kill you and your baby.
Then one day, very quietly (far too quietly) , then governor Pataki made it legal for anyone that wanted one to walk into any drug store and purchase a syringe. (BTW, they're now only considered as drug paraphernalia if they are found along with drugs, a burned up spoon, or other evidence of drug usage)
So guess what happened? No, guess. Mr and Mrs America, all the guys at the V.F.W. Post, and all the girls at the office did not exclaim in one voice,"syringes are legal? lets mainline some drugs!" Grandma's idea of "catching up on her needle work", still consists of sewing. General usage of IV drug use since then, went down, not up.
Ya know what DIDN'T happen? Thousands of cases of HIV/AIDS, that the taxpayer gets to pay for. It's called "harm reduction". .
Back in the sixties JFK and the elite people of television and movies used meth amphetamines like they were going out of style. Which they did when they were later criminalized.
Cecil B Demille took Dr. Max Jacobson to Europe when he filmed the ten commandments.
Charlton Heston was given a double dose to increase his awesomeness.
Dr Jacobson's client list included JFK and his wife, Jackie, Marilyn Monroe, Mickey Mantle, Eddie Fisher, Yul Brynner, Marlene Dietrich, Zero Mostel, Elvis Presley, Anthony Quinn, Truman Capote, Nelson Rockefeller, Maria Callas, Bob Fosse, Ingrid Bergman, Leonard Bernstein, Tennessee Williams, director Cecil B. DeMille and writer Rod Serling
Dr Jacobson was better known as Dr Feelgood.
Meth amphetamines were perfectly legal at the time.
Nazi soldiers also used meth amphetamines to make them perform better.
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