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CICERO
May 26, 2013, 11:58am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


Nuremberg....what a jacka$$$
It's definition...too simple for your narrow mind?

Why not answer the questions instead of trying your usual diversion tactics.


I didn't answer because I was posting while you posted the question jacka$$.  

Not a diversionary tactic.  It was an example of a democratic society in both Germany and America that criminalized human behavior that had no victim.  Whether it's the Nuremberg laws(Which prohibited the marriage of Jews and German as well as other discriminatory acts) or the Fugitive Slave Act(Which required citizens turn in a runaway slave to to the government).

You are quick to call a drug dealer a criminal, even though his crime is to provide goods to a person that chooses to put it into their body.  You disagree with their choice, so you criminalize it.

It is more tyranny of the majority, where the little tyrants in society think they have the right to criminalize activities of individuals that have no victim.  


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joebxr
May 26, 2013, 12:09pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


Yes WHY, It's a victimless crime. They aren't hurting you. "Because consuming drugs does not hurt anybody but the consumer"
Yes Why should someone be disciplined if they are doing something that only hurts themselves? Why would you infringe on their rights to do something that doesn't hurt anyone else except them?
No Not a crime but you would still discipline them. They did nothing wrong according to your way of thinking, yet
you will punish them....

No Not a crime? Really? If your child overdosed on those drugs and died, you might feel differently!

If you come home and find your daughter passed out drunk with 12 empty Budweiser commemorative  memorial day cans scattered around the house, and she was impregnated from a date rape while she was passed out - is Anheuser Bucsh that brewed, marketed, and distributed the alcohol a criminal?


Your beer analogy is ridiculous BS and you know it. But I'll play your stupid game.
BUD is not culpable in this case. But if the guy that raped her and got her drunk brought the beer,
HE is culpable, and has committed several crimes.
If the daughter is under age then he has provided alcohol to a minor. and that carries several charges.
If she is under age and raped, that carries several charges.
If she is not under age she is still raped and taken advantage of, so he is still facing several charges.
Under those scenarios, let me make this clear so you might possibly comprehend,
HE IS THE CULPABLE PARTY not the manufacturer of the beverage.
HE being the person that supplied the beer, just like a HE that sells or provided
drugs to the child snorting the coke!!!!! Criminals because they performed CRIMINAL ACTS!!!!
You get it yet?   Probably not!

Now have fun with your diversionary spin!


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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joebxr
May 26, 2013, 12:12pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


I didn't answer because I was posting while you posted the question jacka$$.  

Not a diversionary tactic.  It was an example of a democratic society in both Germany and America that criminalized human behavior that had no victim.  Whether it's the Nuremberg laws(Which prohibited the marriage of Jews and German as well as other discriminatory acts) or the Fugitive Slave Act(Which required citizens turn in a runaway slave to to the government).

You are quick to call a drug dealer a criminal, even though his crime is to provide goods to a person that chooses to put it into their body.  You disagree with their choice, so you criminalize it.

It is more tyranny of the majority, where the little tyrants in society think they have the right to criminalize activities of individuals that have no victim.  


SURE
OK
WHAT EVER YOU SAY

LIMA
MIKE
ALFA
OSCAR


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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CICERO
May 26, 2013, 12:37pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


Your beer analogy is ridiculous BS and you know it. But I'll play your stupid game.
BUD is not culpable in this case. But if the guy that raped her and got her drunk brought the beer,
HE is culpable, and has committed several crimes.
If the daughter is under age then he has provided alcohol to a minor. and that carries several charges.
If she is under age and raped, that carries several charges.
If she is not under age she is still raped and taken advantage of, so he is still facing several charges.
Under those scenarios, let me make this clear so you might possibly comprehend,
HE IS THE CULPABLE PARTY not the manufacturer of the beverage.
HE being the person that supplied the beer, just like a HE that sells or provided
drugs to the child snorting the coke!!!!! Criminals because they performed CRIMINAL ACTS!!!!
You get it yet?   Probably not!

Now have fun with your diversionary spin!


Why is Bud not culpable in this case?  Because alcohol it isn't prohibited and considered illicit?  Your arguments are ridiculous.  Your hypocritical arguments that advocate for alcohol and the prohibition of what are considered illicit drugs is WEAK.  Not just weak, impossible to make for anybody that can understand that 2+2 =4.

The only difference is, is that cocaine is not manufactured in St. Louis, and packaged in a Red White and Blue container with the American flag on it, then distributed to local convenient stores and marketed the same as alcohol.  

My guess is, you enjoy a drink once and a while, and alcohol is your drug of choice. And if it's your drug of choice then it has to be everybody's drug of choice.  And if you consume a drug that you consider illicit but just as dangerous and the same harmful affect on society as your drug, you are a criminal and must be jailed.

The war on drugs propaganda has done an AMAZING job at brainwashing people to actually attempt to make logical argument that is so obviously illogical.  




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joebxr
May 26, 2013, 12:40pm Report to Moderator

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WOW.... !!!!



JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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CICERO
May 26, 2013, 12:53pm Report to Moderator

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Yes WHY, It's a victimless crime. They aren't hurting you. "Because consuming drugs does not hurt anybody but the consumer"
Because it's my children, and I need to teach them about the affects of drugs.  I teach my kids they can't eat candy for breakfast lunch and dinner too, not because it's a crime, but because of the health risk. I live in reality and understands that drug prohibition has failed.  It hasn't deterred anybody.  Drug use is higher today and first time users are younger.  Parental guidance deters drug use, not cops.
  
Yes Why should someone be disciplined if they are doing something that only hurts themselves? Why would you infringe on their rights to do something that doesn't hurt anyone else except them?
I never said I was infringing on their rights.  It's discipline, a corrective action.  I'm not jailing my child, I'm not giving my child a permanent record that follows them around for the rest of their lives, to assure they will never be able to get a decent job just because they used a drug the government disapproves of.

No Not a crime but you would still discipline them. They did nothing wrong according to your way of thinking, yet
you will punish them....
Correct, government defined crime of right and wrong doesn't define mine.  Jailing an 18 year old and giving them a criminal record that will follow them around the rest of their lives because they were in possession of marijuana isn't a crime that deserves that punishment.  It destroys people.

No Not a crime? Really? If your child overdosed on those drugs and died, you might feel differently!
Nope, I wouldn't.  I do not blame society and push prohibitions onto everybody else because of my personal tragedy.

I guess if you knew somebody that died of aspiration due to alcohol overdose(which happens frequently on college campus' from binge drinking), I guess you would support prohibition of alcohol.


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Ididntdoit
May 26, 2013, 1:37pm Report to Moderator
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What about the fact that drug users enable dealers who may be likely to harm or kill another person in order to protect their territory?

Or users who drive and harm or kill another?

Or users that neglect their offspring due to addiction?

Or users that steal to maintain their habits?

Or users that use their "benefits" to purchase drugs?

Or users  that attend treatment that is paid for by the taxpayer?

These are just a few examples. To say that drug use and drug dealing is victimless is not true.

But I am for legalizing marijuana. I'm not a user but to spend millions upon millions to fight marijuana use/dealing is stupid.  Just sayin'.
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CICERO
May 26, 2013, 1:48pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ididntdoit
What about the fact that drug users enable dealers who may be likely to harm or kill another person in order to protect their territory?

Or users who drive and harm or kill another?

Or users that neglect their offspring due to addiction?

Or users that steal to maintain their habits?

Or users that use their "benefits" to purchase drugs?

Or users  that attend treatment that is paid for by the taxpayer?

These are just a few examples. To say that drug use and drug dealing is victimless is not true.


Those crimes are a result of the prohibition.  Those are the same problems that were created during alcohol prohibition.  After it was overturned, most of the violent gang crime related to alcohol was reduced.  Bootleggers are not shooting at each other today.  But we still have the problem of alcoholics being a drain on healthcare.  The user will always be here, prohibition isn't going to change that.


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Libertarian4life
May 26, 2013, 2:18pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ididntdoit
Question- I'd like to know why some of you believe drug dealing/use is a victimless crime?  


Drug dealing is only a crime if you aren't government approved.

Drug dealing is no more a crime with a victim, than alcohol dealing.

50 people die per day from prescription drug mistakes made by pharmacies.

Perhaps you should be answering the question of who would be the victim of drug dealing/using if it wasn't illegal?

Which it isn't. It is legal and heavily regulated.

Cocaine, pot and opiates are fully legal and heavily rationed and regulated.

The victims of legal drugs is government induced high costs.

The victim of illegal drugs is freedom and liberty.

With liberty and justice for all licensed and heavily regulated persons and corporations.
(subject to terms and conditions specified and dispensed at any time by the governing authorities)

Drug gangs and violence are the product of prohibition and enforcement.

We learned nothing from alcohol prohibition.

Well, except for how to get millions of prison factories filled with slave labor.

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Libertarian4life
May 26, 2013, 2:21pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


crime
    illegal act: an action prohibited by law or a failure to act as required by law
    illegal activity: activity that involves breaking the law
    immoral act: an act considered morally wrong

Simple enough, but difficult for some to accept because once again
it doesn't allow them to try and advance their personal agendas
and biased hatred!





You make these statements, which are a complete and utter false premise, based
on your ignorant assertion that legal equals moral, and illegal equals immoral.

Freedom and liberty are not immoral ideas.

Laws that enslave people are immoral laws.

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Libertarian4life
May 26, 2013, 2:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


So you come home early one day and find your daughter or son snorting coke.....
Do you get mad or angry?  If so, WHY?
Does your child face discipline from you? WHY?
Are they committing a crime in your eyes?
Did the person that gave them the drugs or sold them the drugs commit a crime
in your opinion?


Should you lock your daughter and her boyfriend who got her the cocaine, in a cage for 15 years?

If drugs were legal businessmen would be selling them to adults.

You  idiots insist on only allowing illegal dealers to distribute the drugs.

These illegal drug dealer don't check ID's.

Drug use is a moral issue.

That is the domain of parents.

Laws should not enforce morality on people.

Stop defending Communism and hating freedom, equal treatment under the law, and
the disallownce of personal moral responsibility, replacing it with government enforced
selectively regulated morality.


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Libertarian4life
May 26, 2013, 2:43pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Ididntdoit
What about the fact that drug users enable dealers who may be likely to harm or kill another person in order to protect their territory?


If it was legal, the territory disputes would not exist.

You are describing the Al Capone scenario brought about by illegal alcohol.

Quoted from Ididntdoit

Or users who drive and harm or kill another?



Again, alcohol harms a thousand times as many innocent bystanders as all other drugs combined.

Quoted from Ididntdoit


Or users that neglect their offspring due to addiction?



Alcoholism.

Quoted from Ididntdoit


Or users that steal to maintain their habits?



Theft is not caused by illegal drugs. If drugs were legal the costs would also plummet.

Quoted from Ididntdoit


Or users that use their "benefits" to purchase drugs?



Drug sales being illegal does not cause benefits to be used for drug purchases.

Patents cause legal drug prices to be out of reach and lifesaving drugs and procedures are often denied to the poor.

Quoted from Ididntdoit


Or users  that attend treatment that is paid for by the taxpayer?



Sadly, you are oblivious to reality.  Do you know how many alcoholics and treatment facilities there are?

Quoted from Ididntdoit


These are just a few examples. To say that drug use and drug dealing is victimless is not true.



Drug law enforcement destroys millions of lives and families each year.  Drug law enforcement
is the real crime that has millions of well documented deaths and victims.

Quoted from Ididntdoit


But I am for legalizing marijuana. I'm not a user but to spend millions upon millions to fight marijuana use/dealing is stupid.  


Marijuana is legal, depending on where you happen to be standing.

Other places lock you in a cage.

The places where marijuana is legal have not turned into anarchy and mayhem.

Portugal, realizing the futility and waste of drug laws legalized all drugs in 2000.

Since then one third of their prisons have closed and millions of cops have moved on to other duties.

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joebxr
May 26, 2013, 2:59pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life
You make these statements, which are a complete and utter false premise, based
on your ignorant assertion that legal equals moral, and illegal equals immoral.

Freedom and liberty are not immoral ideas.

Laws that enslave people are immoral laws.



REALLY DUMBA$$...MY ASERTIONS?
http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=crime&go=&qs=ds&form=QB
Quoted Text
NOUN
1.
illegal act: an action prohibited by law or a failure to act as required by law
2.
illegal activity: activity that involves breaking the law
"measures to combat crime"
3.
immoral act: an act considered morally wrong
4.
unacceptable act: a shameful, unwise, or regrettable act(informal)
"It's a crime the way some people waste food."
[ 13th century. Via French < Latin crimen (stem crimin-) "judgment" < cernere "decide" ]

Your anger over your continued failures in life are clouding your thought process.
You really need anger management counseling.


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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Libertarian4life
May 26, 2013, 3:01pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from joebxr


REALLY DUMBA$$...MY ASERTIONS?
http://www.bing.com/Dictionary/search?q=crime&go=&qs=ds&form=QB

Your anger over your continued failures in life are clouding your thought process.
You really need anger management counseling.


3 totally unrelated definitions don't make a case.

Legal does not equal moral.

You are blown out of the water.


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joebxr
May 26, 2013, 3:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life
3 totally unrelated definitions don't make a case.
Legal does not equal moral.
You are blown out of the water.


Blown out of the water.... !!!
You're really showing your ignorance................ > >
Quoted Text

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/crime
Definition of CRIME
1: an act or the commission of an act that is forbidden or the omission of a duty that is commanded by a public law and that makes the offender liable to punishment by that law; especially : a gross violation of law
2: a grave offense especially against morality
3: criminal activity
4: something reprehensible, foolish, or disgraceful

Quoted Text
http://www.lectlaw.com/def/c330.htm
CRIME
A crime is a wrongdoing classified by the state or Congress as a felony or misdemeanor.

A crime is an offence against a public law. This word, in its most general sense, includes all offences, but in its more limited sense is confined to felony.

The term offence may be considered as having the same meaning, but is usually understood to be a crime not indictable but punishable, summarily or by the forfeiture of a penalty.

Felony. A felony is a serious crime punishable by at least one year in prison. Some family law felonies include kidnapping and custodial interference (in some states).

People convicted of felonies lose certain rights, such as the right to vote or hold public office. During the term of sentence, the convicted person may also be prohibited from making contracts, marrying, suing or keeping certain professional licenses. Upon release from prison, the convict may also be required to register with the police.

Misdemeanor. A misdemeanor is a crime for which the punishment is usually a fine and/or up to one year in a county jail. Often a crime which is a misdemeanor for the first offense becomes a felony for repeated offenses. All crimes that are not felonies are misdemeanors.

Crimes are defined and punished by statutes and by the common law. Most common law offences are as well known and as precisely ascertained as those which are defined by statutes; yet, from the difficulty of exactly defining and describing every act which ought to be punished, the vital and preserving principle has been adopted; that all immoral acts which tend to the prejudice of the community are punishable by courts of justice.

Crimes are 'mala in se,' or bad in themselves, and these include all offences against the moral law; or they are 'mala prohibita,' bad because prohibited, as being against sound policy which, unless prohibited, would be innocent or indifferent. Crimes may be classed into such as affect:

- 1. Religion And Public Worship: 1. Blasphemy. 2. Disturbing public worship.

- 2. The Sovereign Power: 1. Treason. 2. Misprision of treason.

- 3. The Current Coin: 1. Counterfeiting or impairing it.

- 4. Public justice: 1. Bribery of judges or jurors, or receiving the bribe. 2. Perjury. 3. Prison breaking. 4. Rescue. 5. Barratry. 6. Maintenance. 7. Champerty. 8. Compounding felonies. 9. Misprision of felonies. 10. Oppression. 11. Extortion. 12. Suppressing evidence. 13. Negligence or misconduct in inferior officers. 14. Obstructing legal process. 15. Embracery.

- 5. Public Peace: 1. Challenges to fight a duel. 2. Riots, routs and unlawful assemblies. 3. Affrays. 4. Libels.

- 6. Public Trade: 1. Cheats. 2. Forestalling. S. Regrating. 4. Engrossing. 5. Monopolies.

- 7. Chastity: 1. Sodomy. 2. Adultery. 3. Incest. 4. Bigamy. 5. Fornication.

- 8. Decency And Morality: 1. Public indecency. 2. Drunkenness. 3. Violatiug the grave.

- 9. Public Police And Economy: 1. Common nuisances. 2. Keeping disorderly houses and bawdy houses. 3. Idleness, vagrancy, and beggary.

- 10. Public Policy: 1. Gambling. 2. Illegal lotteries.

- 11. Individuals: 1. Homicide, which is justifiable, excusable or felonious. 3. Mayhem. 3. Rape. 4. Poisoning, with intent to murder. 5. Administering drugs to a woman quick with child to cause, miscarriage. 6. Concealing death of bastard child. 7. Assault and battery, which is either simple or with intent to commit some other crime. 8. kidnapping. 9. False imprisonment. 10. Abduction.

- 12. Private Property: 1. Burglary. 2. Arson. 3. Robbery. 4., Forgery. Counterfeiting. 6. Larceny. 7. Receiving stolen goods, knowing them to have been stolen, or theft-bote. 8. Malicious mischief.

- 13. The Public, Individuals, Or Their Property, According To The Intent Of The Criminal: 1. Conspiracy.

Quoted Text
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crime
CRIME
1. An act committed or omitted in violation of a law forbidding or commanding it and for which punishment is imposed upon conviction.
2. Unlawful activity: statistics relating to violent crime.
3. A serious offense, especially one in violation of morality.
4. An unjust, senseless, or disgraceful act or condition: It's a crime to squander our country's natural resources.

CRIME
1. (Law) an act or omission prohibited and punished by law
2. (Law)
a.  unlawful acts in general a wave of crime
b.  (as modifier) crime wave
3. an evil act
4. Informal something to be regretted it is a crime that he died young


JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!!  
JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!  
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