Cicero - While I agree they should not have had the stripper at the party. If that is all that happened, hold them accountable - but that is not a termination offense.
You do not have a right to legislate their off duty conduct. Are they slaves that you control their behavior for 24 hours a day? Ridiculous.
So if a few go to a strip bar - it's okay, if they rent a stripper - the only differnece being the number of officers and the venue - it's unacceptable? That logic is inconsistent. Too bad the world does not spin the way you want it.
Inconsistent logic?
Are you saying that if the kindergarten teachers of Schenectady City School District holds a private Christmas party that involves strippers from Tops and Bottoms, the parents don't have the right to voice their concerns and address the school board about their immoral conduct? A parent has to send their child to a teacher whose behavior outside of work causes the parent to question their behavior inside of work because it's "legal"? Sure, it might be "legal" but their conduct damages the public trust. The public trust doesn't care about what is "legal" when it comes to cops, it's the moral impropriety of the cops that have the right to detain them. Cops and teacher have a higher standard of conduct in and out of work because of their relationship with the community they serve. And this is a relationship that is compulsory not voluntary. I have to pay my school tax, I have to pay my property tax, I have to submit to a police officers demands. They should know that when taking the job.
It's a shame that a person that I assume to be involved in the SPD would hold a position of moral relativity and the legal argument to dismiss this behavior and not understand the larger picture of the public trust. This wasn't the city sanitation crew having a few beers and watching strippers. This was a platoon of police officers that have to be trusted in the community. With a police department and city with such a poor reputation already, you would think city officials would enforce a stricter code of conduct policy.
Are you saying that if the kindergarten teachers of Schenectady City School District holds a private Christmas party that involves strippers from Tops and Bottoms, the parents don't have the right to voice their concerns and address the school board about their immoral conduct? A parent has to send their child to a teacher whose behavior outside of work causes the parent to question their behavior inside of work because it's "legal"? Sure, it might be "legal" but their conduct damages the public trust. The public trust doesn't care about what is "legal" when it comes to cops, it's the moral impropriety of the cops that have the right to detain them. Cops and teacher have a higher standard of conduct in and out of work because of their relationship with the community they serve. And this is a relationship that is compulsory not voluntary. I have to pay my school tax, I have to pay my property tax, I have to submit to a police officers demands. They should know that when taking the job.
It's a shame that a person that I assume to be involved in the SPD would hold a position of moral relativity and the legal argument to dismiss this behavior and not understand the larger picture of the public trust. This wasn't the city sanitation crew having a few beers and watching strippers. This was a platoon of police officers that have to be trusted in the community. With a police department and city with such a poor reputation already, you would think city officials would enforce a stricter code of conduct policy. [/quote,
Ciero what's your point, aren't you always deeming yourself as for small government? So these cops should be punished for not breaking the law, but for doing behavior you don't like? I'm no fan of the SPD and this was stupid, but to call it anything other than stupid and in poor taste, is just well, stupid and in poor taste as well. Visitor is agreeing with you as to the poor judgement aspect, what more do you want? Different laws for different people? More big government?
Ciero what's your point, aren't you always deeming yourself as for small government?
Yup, get the victimless crime laws like drug laws and prostitution off the books and you can cut the SPD by 2/3. In this case, I am talking purely from a perspective of management, not big government small government.
So these cops should be punished for not breaking the law, but for doing behavior you don't like?
As law enforcement officers, they should be punished for putting themselves in a position to be suspected of breaking the laws they are hired to enforce. As the article said, there is a very fine line between stripping and prostitution. Even if the investigation finds no illegal activity was going on, it will still be suspected by many in the public that more was going on than innocent stripping. Whether is is justified or not, it will damage the public trust. My whole point to visitor is that he feels the city officials have no way of enforcing policy that will do more to maintain the public trust in the police department. Private businesses have stricter code of conduct rules and controls than the SPD.
Visitor is agreeing with you as to the poor judgement aspect, what more do you want? Different laws for different people? More big government?
I don't want more LAWS, I want stricter internal CONTROLS on law enforcement officers. You can have all policies and codes of conduct, but if you have no controls in place they are useless.
Are you saying that if the kindergarten teachers of Schenectady City School District holds a private Christmas party that involves strippers from Tops and Bottoms, the parents don't have the right to voice their concerns and address the school board about their immoral conduct? A parent has to send their child to a teacher whose behavior outside of work causes the parent to question their behavior inside of work because it's "legal"? Sure, it might be "legal" but their conduct damages the public trust. The public trust doesn't care about what is "legal" when it comes to cops, it's the moral impropriety of the cops that have the right to detain them. Cops and teacher have a higher standard of conduct in and out of work because of their relationship with the community they serve. And this is a relationship that is compulsory not voluntary. I have to pay my school tax, I have to pay my property tax, I have to submit to a police officers demands. They should know that when taking the job.
It's a shame that a person that I assume to be involved in the SPD would hold a position of moral relativity and the legal argument to dismiss this behavior and not understand the larger picture of the public trust. This wasn't the city sanitation crew having a few beers and watching strippers. This was a platoon of police officers that have to be trusted in the community. With a police department and city with such a poor reputation already, you would think city officials would enforce a stricter code of conduct policy. [/quote,
Ciero what's your point, aren't you always deeming yourself as for small government? So these cops should be punished for not breaking the law, but for doing behavior you don't like? I'm no fan of the SPD and this was stupid, but to call it anything other than stupid and in poor taste, is just well, stupid and in poor taste as well. Visitor is agreeing with you as to the poor judgement aspect, what more do you want? Different laws for different people? More big government?
I work in healthcare....workers which are now actually government workers per se according to the national healthcare laws and criminal background checks, just so the fu(king public can feel good about it's lack of manning up....the system has become punitive for the public....the police/fire/teachers etc deserve the same treatment no one is more equal than another(whether that is right or wrong is to be seen)....the only reason those public workers 'feel safe' is because of their unions....their unions don't promote morality they are just a 'shop' buffer to the punitive public...healthcare workers are without public union and 'get what every other pleb gets' punitive treatment...
remove the muscle of the shop and people will have to man up morally according to the tide of the society it lives in
they could go to the city/vegas/canada or where ever and have their little party....
BUT YOU DON'T SH!T IN YOUR OWN YARD
although I suppose we could commend them on supporting the local economy, and collecting taxes for the dances served
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
On Wednesday night, Schenectady’s midnight platoon — mostly young officers working the midnight to 8 a.m. shift — gathered at a retired officer’s bar to drink and watch dancing women take off their clothes for hours. Their spouses were not invited, another red fl ag, according to city leaders.
Still wondering were any on duty?
Thought the gun control people would have commented on this by asking "how many were drinking and armed" ?
And the article says "mostly young officers" so does this mean some of the "seasoned" ones were there ?
These questions should be answered though we will never hear the truth.
If they were off duty, were not carrying and didn't drive drunk than I don't care, but if anyone of them was on duty, was carrying and drinking then driving than I do care.
Ok, so they should be guided by what the pubklic may suspect them of doing?
Yeah, that's how public opinion and public trust is determined. These people are armed public servants that can detain people against their will.
When the SPD and mayor are caught with their pants down when questioned about their officers juvinial behavior, it gives the appearance of lack of control the leadership has at the top. Every law enforcement leader quoted in the article agreed that their behavior was inappropriate and gives the image of impropriety. Your position is that city officials can do nothing to officers whose behavior off duty hurts the SPD's reputation and public trust. I disagree, more can be done.
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