FDR locked a whole race of people in internment camps and Libs rank him up at the top. That's amazing!
No one just one thing... you for example; no doubt some time in your life you actually did something admirable... Right? I mean once any way? Right? Right?
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
No one just one thing... you for example; no doubt some time in your life you actually did something admirable... Right? I mean once any way? Right? Right?
Yup, I put food on my family's table everyday. And I never killed a person or locked a person up against thier will. Can you or FDR say the same?
Actually Carter didn't do that bad. He finished 25th, behind Gerald Ford, and ahead of Richard Nixon. Best Modern Presidents: 3 Franklin D. Roosevelt 4 Theodore Roosevelt 5 Harry S. Truman 6 John F. Kennedy 8 Dwight D. Eisenhower 10 Ronald Reagan 11Lyndon B. Johnson 15 Bill Clinton 18 George H. W. Bush 22 Gerald R. Ford 25 Jimmy Carter 27 Richard M. Nixon
Lyndon Johnson deserves to be ranked higher than John Kennedy. It was President Johnson who actually won the major legislative battles (Civil Rights Act, Voting Rights Act, Great Society, etc) that the Kennedy administration only talked about doing. Plus, President Johnson got stuck with the war that President Kennedy dragged us into Vietnam (remember it was Kennedy who had President Diem of South Vietnam assassinated and sent the first waves of "advisers") and it was Kennedy cabinet holdovers like McNamara who made Vietnam the huge mess that it became.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
Plus, President Johnson got stuck with the war that President Kennedy dragged us into Vietnam (remember it was Kennedy who had President Diem of South Vietnam assassinated and sent the first waves of "advisers") and it was Kennedy cabinet holdovers like McNamara who made Vietnam the huge mess that it became.
The USA started it's involvement in Vietnam long before Kennedy or Johnson...
~ July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
~ American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.
~ September 27, 1950 - The U.S. establishes a Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) in Saigon to aid the French Army.
~ January 20, 1953 -is inaugurated as the 34th U.S. President. During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam. To justify America's financial commitment, Eisenhower will cite a 'Domino Theory' in which a Communist victory in Vietnam would result in surrounding countries falling one after another like a "falling row of dominoes." The Domino Theory will be used by a succession of Presidents and their advisors to justify ever-deepening U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
~ January 1955 - The first direct shipment of U.S. military aid to Saigon arrives. The U.S. also offers to train the fledgling South Vietnam Army.
~ July 8, 1959 - Two U.S. military advisors, Maj. Dale Buis and Sgt. Chester Ovnand, are killed by Viet Minh guerrillas at Bien Hoa, South Vietnam. They are the first American deaths in the Second Indochina War which Americans will come to know simply as The Vietnam War.
~ January 20, 1961- John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty." Privately, outgoing President Eisenhower tells him "I think you're going to have to send troops..." to Southeast Asia.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The USA started it's involvement in Vietnam long before Kennedy or Johnson...
~ July 26, 1950 - United States military involvement in Vietnam begins as President Harry Truman authorizes $15 million in military aid to the French.
~ American military advisors will accompany the flow of U.S. tanks, planes, artillery and other supplies to Vietnam. Over the next four years, the U.S. will spend $3 Billion on the French war and by 1954 will provide 80 percent of all war supplies used by the French.
~ September 27, 1950 - The U.S. establishes a Military Assistance Advisory Group (MAAG) in Saigon to aid the French Army.
~ January 20, 1953 -is inaugurated as the 34th U.S. President. During his term, Eisenhower will greatly increase U.S. military aid to the French in Vietnam to prevent a Communist victory. U.S. military advisors will continue to accompany American supplies sent to Vietnam. To justify America's financial commitment, Eisenhower will cite a 'Domino Theory' in which a Communist victory in Vietnam would result in surrounding countries falling one after another like a "falling row of dominoes." The Domino Theory will be used by a succession of Presidents and their advisors to justify ever-deepening U.S. involvement in Vietnam.
~ January 1955 - The first direct shipment of U.S. military aid to Saigon arrives. The U.S. also offers to train the fledgling South Vietnam Army.
~ July 8, 1959 - Two U.S. military advisors, Maj. Dale Buis and Sgt. Chester Ovnand, are killed by Viet Minh guerrillas at Bien Hoa, South Vietnam. They are the first American deaths in the Second Indochina War which Americans will come to know simply as The Vietnam War.
~ January 20, 1961- John Fitzgerald Kennedy is inaugurated as the 35th U.S. President and declares "...we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe, to insure the survival and the success of liberty." Privately, outgoing President Eisenhower tells him "I think you're going to have to send troops..." to Southeast Asia.
Great timeline to spotlight the fact - THE PRESIDENT DOENS'T HAVE CONTROL OVER WAR DECISIONS. The special interests, defense contractors, bankers, and our military and intellegence agencies do. All that has to happen is one false flag attack carried out by the DOD or CIA to get the public behind a war. The president cannot do much to stop that.
People like Box live in the fantasy world that believes that if only John Kennedy had lived we would not have gotten mired in Vietnam. The FACT is that although the US had limited involvement in Indo-China prior to the Kennedy administration --- it was IN FACT President Kennedy who greatly expanded that role and, most importantly, ordered the assassination of President Diem of South Vietnam. John Kennedy was not decreasing or ending our involvement in Vietnam (as his siblings and advisers would tell us afterwards as they created the fantasy of an American Camelot) .... John Kennedy was digging us deeper and deeper into Vietnam and setting the stage for our all out military involvement.
The people who created the legend/fantasy of an American Camelot were Kennedy advisers and siblings who wanted to build up the image of the late president and who disliked President Johnson. Actually, "disliked" is not correct. The Kennedy siblings and advisers looked down on Lyndon Johnson in the same way they looked down on anyone who was not an Ivy League Blue Blood. The Kennedy siblings and advisers worked overtime to smear and discredit folks like Johnson and Nixon while pumping up and creating legends about the late JFK.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
People like Box live in the fantasy world that believes that if only John Kennedy had lived we would not have gotten mired in Vietnam. The FACT is that although the US had limited involvement in Indo-China prior to the Kennedy administration --- it was IN FACT President Kennedy who greatly expanded that role and, most importantly, ordered the assassination of President Diem of South Vietnam. John Kennedy was not decreasing or ending our involvement in Vietnam (as his siblings and advisers would tell us afterwards as they created the fantasy of an American Camelot) .... John Kennedy was digging us deeper and deeper into Vietnam and setting the stage for our all out military involvement. The people who created the legend/fantasy of an American Camelot were Kennedy advisers and siblings who wanted to build up the image of the late president and who disliked President Johnson. Actually, "disliked" is not correct. The Kennedy siblings and advisers looked down on Lyndon Johnson in the same way they looked down on anyone who was not an Ivy League Blue Blood. The Kennedy siblings and advisers worked overtime to smear and discredit folks like Johnson and Nixon while pumping up and creating legends about the late JFK.
History is a great subject to study... it's too bad that DVOR opts to 'make up' history instead of researching it. First DVOR posted: ~ "remember it was Kennedy who had President Diem of South Vietnam assassinated and sent the first waves of "advisers" Then again posts: ~ "and, most importantly,(Kennedy) ordered the assassination of President Diem of South Vietnam."
1. Above I've shown that US advisers were in Vietnam since the late 40's, and their number grew through the 50's, before Kennedy was elected.
2. DVOR insists that Kennedy "ORDERED" the assignation of President Diem. The facts show otherwise. Although Kennedy did agree with the coup to topple Deim, he never ordered or even agreed with killing Diem.
Quoted Text
Records of the Kennedy national security meetings, show that none of JFK's conversations about a coup in Saigon featured consideration of what might physically happen to Ngo Dinh Diem or Ngo Dinh Nhu. The audio record of the October 29th meeting which we cite below also reveals no discussion of this issue. That meeting, the last held at the White House to consider a coup before this actually took place, would have been the key moment for such a conversation. The conclusion of the Church Committee agrees that Washington gave no consideration to killing Diem. The weight of evidence therefore supports the view that President Kennedy did not conspire in the death of Diem.
Diem was no more an elected leader of Vietnam, than was Emperor Bao Da, who was installed by the French. The Geneva convention guaranteed "free elections" in all of Vietnam by 1956. If those elections had occurred, Ho Chi Minh would have won. Successive administrations, from Truman on through Nixon, did what ever it took to prevent that from happening.
5 November 2003 JFK TAPE DETAILS HIGH-LEVEL VIETNAM COUP PLOTTING IN 1963; DOCUMENTS SHOW NO THOUGHT OF DIEM ASSASSINATION; U.S. OVERESTIMATED INFLUENCE ON SAIGON GENERALS.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
On economic handling of the nation, Clinton was the best President in my lifetime.
He probably could have enacted universal health care, if he wasn't constantly under attack from Republicans seeking to see America and Clinton fail.
Under President Clinton's leadership, 22 million new jobs were created.
Clinton expanded the Earned Income Tax Credit to cut the taxes of 15 million working families with incomes of $27,000 or less.
Clinton reduced the White House staff by 25 percent.
A strong economy and fiscal discipline kept interest rates low, making it possible for more families to buy homes. The home ownership rate increased from 64.2 percent in 1992 to 67. 7 percent, the highest rate ever.
Lowest unemployment in 30 years Unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000.
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years
Higher incomes at all levels After falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family’s income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation, since 1993. African American family income increased even more, rising by nearly $7,000 since 1993. After years of stagnant income growth among average and lower income families, all income brackets experienced double-digit growth since 1993. The bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent.
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years Since Congress passed President Clinton’s Economic Plan in 1993, the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent The largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history The Clinton Administration expanded efforts to provide mothers and newborn children with health care. A record high 82 percent of all mothers received prenatal care. The infant mortality rate dropped from 8.5 deaths per 1,000 in 1992 to 7.2 deaths per 1,000 in 1998, the lowest rate ever recorded.
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union
Converted what was at the time, the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
Most Rapid Growth in Construction Jobs in 50 Years.
Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.
Slaughtered people in Waco
Bombed countries every day to distract from his Lewinsky affair.
History is a great subject to study... it's too bad that DVOR opts to 'make up' history instead of researching it. First DVOR posted: ~ "remember it was Kennedy who had President Diem of South Vietnam assassinated and sent the first waves of "advisers" Then again posts: ~ "and, most importantly,(Kennedy) ordered the assassination of President Diem of South Vietnam."
1. Above I've shown that US advisers were in Vietnam since the late 40's, and their number grew through the 50's, before Kennedy was elected.
2. DVOR insists that Kennedy "ORDERED" the assignation of President Diem. The facts show otherwise. Although Kennedy did agree with the coup to topple Deim, he never ordered or even agreed with killing Diem.
Diem was no more an elected leader of Vietnam, than was Emperor Bao Da, who was installed by the French. The Geneva convention guaranteed "free elections" in all of Vietnam by 1956. If those elections had occurred, Ho Chi Minh would have won. Successive administrations, from Truman on through Nixon, did what ever it took to prevent that from happening.
5 November 2003 JFK TAPE DETAILS HIGH-LEVEL VIETNAM COUP PLOTTING IN 1963; DOCUMENTS SHOW NO THOUGHT OF DIEM ASSASSINATION; U.S. OVERESTIMATED INFLUENCE ON SAIGON GENERALS.
I did not make up history. You just happen to subscribe to the school of thought that President Kennedy could do no wrong and you have boughten into the whole fantasy of an American Camelot. This is the school of thought that the blame for Vietnam goes to the presidents immediately BEFORE Kennedy and the presidents immediately after Kenney -- and that IF ONLY JFK had lived and been reelected he would pulled us out of Vietnam and all of the problems of 1960's America would never have happened.
The FACT is that President Kennedy didn't just "agree" to coup. John Kennedy was the President -- the Commander-in-Chief -- the one with the constitutional/legal authority to authorize the operation. The buck stops with him - as president. He gave the order for the C.I.A. to be involved. And as a result of the coup - President Diem was dead -- assassinated.
Now don't tell me that President Kennedy said " I authorize the coup but please don't hurt President Diem." Kennedy was intelligent enough to know that when you authorize/order a coup --- people get hurt and people get killed.
Sorry to burst your bubble. President Kennedy was a mere human. He made mistakes. He was probably a good man and - IMHO - a fair to good president .. not a great president and certainly not a demi-god.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
I did not make up history. You just happen to subscribe to the school of thought that President Kennedy could do no wrong and you have boughten into the whole fantasy of an American Camelot. This is the school of thought that the blame for Vietnam goes to the presidents immediately BEFORE Kennedy and the presidents immediately after Kenney -- and that IF ONLY JFK had lived and been reelected he would pulled us out of Vietnam and all of the problems of 1960's America would never have happened.
The FACT is that President Kennedy didn't just "agree" to coup. John Kennedy was the President -- the Commander-in-Chief -- the one with the constitutional/legal authority to authorize the operation. The buck stops with him - as president. He gave the order for the C.I.A. to be involved. And as a result of the coup - President Diem was dead -- assassinated.
Now don't tell me that President Kennedy said " I authorize the coup but please don't hurt President Diem." Kennedy was intelligent enough to know that when you authorize/order a coup --- people get hurt and people get killed.
Sorry to burst your bubble. President Kennedy was a mere human. He made mistakes. He was probably a good man and - IMHO - a fair to good president .. not a great president and certainly not a demi-god.
If you would post more facts and less of "what you assume that I think" your posts might make some sense.
~ Kennedy could do no wrong??? Really? Why do you post that. I got my FACTS from the national archives. Yours? Your opinion.
~"when you authorize/order a coup --- people get hurt and people get killed." Bloodless Coups in Vietnam: Dương Văn Minh (Big Minh) 1963 Nguyễn Văn Thiệu1965–75 Trần Văn Hương 1975, Dương Văn Minh (Big Minh) again in 1975. Diem and his brother were offered exile if they surrendered. However, that evening, Diệm and his entourage escaped via an underground passage to Cholon, where they were captured the following morning, and assassinated.
~" blame for Vietnam goes to the presidents immediately BEFORE Kennedy" I blame each US President for his particular involvement in the war. All presidents before, all after and Kennedy. Mistakes were made from the beginning of that war till it's end. There's plenty of blame to go around... and I absolve none for their actions.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
~" blame for Vietnam goes to the presidents immediately BEFORE Kennedy" I blame each US President for his particular involvement in the war. All presidents before, all after and Kennedy. Mistakes were made from the beginning of that war till it's end. There's plenty of blame to go around... and I absolve none for their actions.
Is enforcing a "no-fly zone" over a sovereign country considered an involvement in a war? If so, then Bill Clinton continued the U.S foreign policy in Iraq started by George HW. Bush in 1991, and escalated by GWB in 2003. Clinton even ordered a 4 day bombing campaign in Iraq in 1998. So based on Box's "prievious president" premise, Clinton shares the blame for our involvement in the Iraq War.
Is enforcing a "no-fly zone" over a sovereign country considered an involvement in a war? If so, then Bill Clinton continued the U.S foreign policy in Iraq started by George HW. Bush in 1991, and escalated by GWB in 2003. Clinton even ordered a 4 day bombing campaign in Iraq in 1998. So based on Box's "prievious president" premise, Clinton shares the blame for our involvement in the Iraq War.
Thanks for clarifying that box.
Clinton is responsible for his actions as president... All US presidents who had a hand in the Iraq situation can take credit or take blame for their actions. Some presidents are more to blame than others... Reagan arming the Iraqi's with WMD's for example.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
If you would post more facts and less of "what you assume that I think" your posts might make some sense.
~ Kennedy could do no wrong??? Really? Why do you post that. I got my FACTS from the national archives. Yours? Your opinion.
~"when you authorize/order a coup --- people get hurt and people get killed." Bloodless Coups in Vietnam: Dương Văn Minh (Big Minh) 1963 Nguyễn Văn Thiệu1965–75 Trần Văn Hương 1975, Dương Văn Minh (Big Minh) again in 1975. Diem and his brother were offered exile if they surrendered. However, that evening, Diệm and his entourage escaped via an underground passage to Cholon, where they were captured the following morning, and assassinated.
~" blame for Vietnam goes to the presidents immediately BEFORE Kennedy" I blame each US President for his particular involvement in the war. All presidents before, all after and Kennedy. Mistakes were made from the beginning of that war till it's end. There's plenty of blame to go around... and I absolve none for their actions.
You stated "Kennedy agreed to the coup" as if he innocently agreed to a benign action. The FACT is that President Kennedy AUTHORIZED the coup and because he did should bear responsibility for the assassination of Diem.
Furthermore - if you correctly restated my point about coups that is anyone who authorizes a coup should realize that there is a potential for people to be hurt and/or killed. You blathered on with your neo-liberal nonsense as if to say ... oh Kennedy just agreed to it and somehow Diem ended up dead but that really isn't my demi-god's fault and that Diem was just clumsy and got in the way of a bayonet and a bullet.
The coup and assassination of Diem was a HUGE miscalculation/mistake on the part of President Kennedy:
"Upon learning of Diệm's ouster and assassination, Hồ Chí Minh reportedly stated: “I can scarcely believe the Americans would be so stupid.”[60] The North Vietnamese Politburo was more explicit: “The consequences of the 1 November coup d'état will be contrary to the calculations of the U.S. imperialists ... Diệm was one of the strongest individuals resisting the people and Communism. Everything that could be done in an attempt to crush the revolution was carried out by Diệm. Diệm was one of the most competent lackeys of the U.S. imperialists ... Among the anti-Communists in South Vietnam or exiled in other countries, no one has sufficient political assets and abilities to cause others to obey. Therefore, the lackey administration cannot be stabilized. The coup d'état on 1 November 1963 will not be the last.”[60] After Diệm's assassination, South Vietnam was unable to establish a stable government and numerous coups took place during the first several years after his death. While the U.S. continued to influence South Vietnam's government, the assassination bolstered North Vietnamese attempts to characterize the South Vietnamese as supporters of colonialism."
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
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