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IraRotterdam
July 14, 2012, 6:05pm Report to Moderator
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[b][/b][color=green][/color]


Hospice, the harbinger of things to come or go if you are elderly or sick.  How far should man go in science (medicine) before he plays God.  Playing God is a delicate matter, life & death are in the balance.



With the advent of miracle drugs (if you can get them) & all sorts of equipment man's life is extended.  One can argue if the extension is a good idea.  As our life is extended we become a burden on insurance programs, the dole & the people who care for US.  Shifting people from home care to nursing homes, back & forth is a sign we have created an unbearable burden.  Have you been to a doctors office (doctors mill) lately.  As wonderful as the drugs are, competent the doctors may be the office staff is at best indifferent.  Casual & insensitive, no compassion.  Why should they be, you are a number for them to process.  Most doctors spend more time feeding information into lap tops than looking at you or talking to you.  Ditto 'visiting nurses'.  I can appreciate the value of statistical data but when do we lose our humanity in the process.  The stats are keeping you alive, don't complain, right?



Many of the people working in nursing facilities wish they were elsewhere.  I would if I did.  The care reflects the attitude.  Nursing facility staff spend a lot of time critiquing home health care people hired by family's to attend to the needs of patient beyond facility care.  Turf war 101.



We keep people alive, pretend we are a caring society then dump the old folks into the hands of people who do not care.  Recently while visiting a friend in a Schenectady County nursing facility I passed the 'recreation room', five old guys were watching the TV, CNN because FOX is not allowed.  You could tell by the smell it was time for the boys to be taken to their rooms for a clean up.  It was obvious they were out to lunch, being 'day cared' by the TV.  A number of years ago I took my mother to the Albany County Nursing Home to visit her sister.  As we walked down the hall we heard what sounded like bird sounds.  My mother asked me what that was, I said it must be a nature show on TV.  It was the sounds the patients were making.  So dehumanized they sounded like animals.



I guess you are wondering, who is this writer to decide who is to live or die.  I ask the same question back to the medical profession.  The road to hell has always been paved with good intentions, see Obamacare.



Unlike the people who created Obamacare I do not have all the answers.  I do have enough questions to see we got a problem & it is getting worse.



Politicians & science give people expectations that leave them empty shells.  Maybe the redeeming quality to this mess is they do not know what is taking place or being done to them.



Nursing facilities constantly shuffle patients to doctors for periodic visits that make no sense or exploit health insurance.  It is guaranteed income for the doctor mills.  Some of the patients know what is being done to them, resent it but must keep quiet.  If they do not they will be diagnosed with a 'mental disorder'.  One must be 'crazy' not to want all sorts of procedures done to them.



If you are in a nursing facility you lose your patient rights because you are incapable of determining them.  Family's or guardians do not have a clue or buy into the system.



As a doctor on FOX said recently.  Live a healthy, whole life, stay whole & die a complete person.  A goal few of US will reach.


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Box A Rox
July 14, 2012, 6:41pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from IraRotterdam
[b][/b][color=green][/color]
Hospice, the harbinger of things to come or go if you are elderly or sick.  How far should man go in science (medicine) before he plays God.  Playing God is a delicate matter, life & death are in the balance.
With the advent of miracle drugs (if you can get them) & all sorts of equipment man's life is extended.  One can argue if the extension is a good idea.  As our life is extended we become a burden on insurance programs, the dole & the people who care for US.  Shifting people from home care to nursing homes, back & forth is a sign we have created an unbearable burden.  Have you been to a doctors office (doctors mill) lately.  As wonderful as the drugs are, competent the doctors may be the office staff is at best indifferent.  Casual & insensitive, no compassion.  Why should they be, you are a number for them to process.  Most doctors spend more time feeding information into lap tops than looking at you or talking to you.  Ditto 'visiting nurses'.  I can appreciate the value of statistical data but when do we lose our humanity in the process.  The stats are keeping you alive, don't complain, right?
Many of the people working in nursing facilities wish they were elsewhere.  I would if I did.  The care reflects the attitude.  Nursing facility staff spend a lot of time critiquing home health care people hired by family's to attend to the needs of patient beyond facility care.  Turf war 101.
We keep people alive, pretend we are a caring society then dump the old folks into the hands of people who do not care.  Recently while visiting a friend in a Schenectady County nursing facility I passed the 'recreation room', five old guys were watching the TV, CNN because FOX is not allowed.  You could tell by the smell it was time for the boys to be taken to their rooms for a clean up.  It was obvious they were out to lunch, being 'day cared' by the TV.  A number of years ago I took my mother to the Albany County Nursing Home to visit her sister.  As we walked down the hall we heard what sounded like bird sounds.  My mother asked me what that was, I said it must be a nature show on TV.  It was the sounds the patients were making.  So dehumanized they sounded like animals.
I guess you are wondering, who is this writer to decide who is to live or die.  I ask the same question back to the medical profession.  The road to hell has always been paved with good intentions, see Obamacare.
Unlike the people who created Obamacare I do not have all the answers.  I do have enough questions to see we got a problem & it is getting worse.
Politicians & science give people expectations that leave them empty shells.  Maybe the redeeming quality to this mess is they do not know what is taking place or being done to them.
Nursing facilities constantly shuffle patients to doctors for periodic visits that make no sense or exploit health insurance.  It is guaranteed income for the doctor mills.  Some of the patients know what is being done to them, resent it but must keep quiet.  If they do not they will be diagnosed with a 'mental disorder'.  One must be 'crazy' not to want all sorts of procedures done to them.
If you are in a nursing facility you lose your patient rights because you are incapable of determining them.  Family's or guardians do not have a clue or buy into the system.
As a doctor on FOX said recently.  Live a healthy, whole life, stay whole & die a complete person.  A goal few of US will reach.


You can understand the entire post if you only read this part of the last paragraph...

"As a doctor on FOX said recently...."




The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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bumblethru
July 14, 2012, 7:04pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from IraRotterdam
[/b][color=green][/color]

We keep people alive, pretend we are a caring society then dump the old folks into the hands of people who do not care.  Recently while visiting a friend in a [b]Schenectady County nursing facility
I passed the 'recreation room', five old guys were watching the TV, CNN because FOX is not allowed.  You could tell by the smell it was time for the boys to be taken to their rooms for a clean up.  It was obvious they were out to lunch, being 'day cared' by the TV.  A number of years ago I took my mother to the Albany County Nursing Home to visit her sister.  As we walked down the hall we heard what sounded like bird sounds.  My mother asked me what that was, I said it must be a nature show on TV.  It was the sounds the patients were making.  So dehumanized they sounded like animals.



County homes are the absolute worse!!! And yes we warehouse our elderly.......but a private facility is the ONLY way to go if a loved one MUST be placed.

And ira...I must say that you are out of touch with the older community. They are NOT animals!!! AND they are NOT dehuminized!!!  THEY ARE OLD and their bodies and minds are aging! We will ALL be there someday and there is absolutely NO way to stop or prevent it! Get your house in order and get the legalities written up. Make your own choices for your old age. If not someone else will be making those choices for you!! Cause someday, if we should all live so long, you can rest assured that some stranger will be wiping our a$$es!! YOU CAN BET ON THAT ONE!!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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Box A Rox
July 14, 2012, 7:24pm Report to Moderator

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Lets hope that Ira never needs Hospice... if he does, he may understand what a caring services they provide.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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senders
July 14, 2012, 7:31pm Report to Moderator
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staring old age in the face is the only way to 'get by it'.....learn it, love it, embrace it,,,,,hit home plate with broken bones,
bruises, scratches etc.....

never let someone else tell you

1. you need to eat to get better (not true, eating does NOT stop aging)
2. you need an anti depressant to be happy (not true, being happy about being infirm is NOT required just because of a subjective view)
3.you need to take your medicine if you want to feel better (not true, taking medicine does NOT make old age feel better)
4. you need to have this test and that test to get better (most things for aging are palliative bandaids)

BOTTOM LINE

there is nothing in the 'medicine chest' to stop aging.....it just happens...don't let anyone take the experience from you by hiding
it behind some stupid Ensure/zoloft/cymbalta commercial.....

falling is not bad...it just happens....

saying an elder person is depressed (subjective) and placing them on anti depressants is like the movie Girl Interupted...

trying to stop the process so we can't see it removes our lessons about aging....interrupting an elder with meds is rude....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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senders
July 14, 2012, 7:32pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Box A Rox
Lets hope that Ira never needs Hospice... if he does, he may understand what a caring services they provide.


it's funny how hospice is venerated....as if folks haven't been dying for thousands of years....

OMG...how do we do it


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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Tommy
July 14, 2012, 7:45pm Report to Moderator

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"five old guys were watching the TV, CNN because FOX is not allowed."

I would love to call them and verify that, except they would think I was insane.


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A Better Rotterdam
July 14, 2012, 7:52pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Tommy
"five old guys were watching the TV, CNN because FOX is not allowed."

I would love to call them and verify that, except they would think I was insane.


LOL, I'd love to here IRA's explanation of how Fox news is banned. More paranoid propaganda from my favorite mental midget.
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