Oh, please tell me why the US military operates. You are the guy arguing against Bush's illegal war in Iraq and told me to read War is a Racket. After reading it, I came to the conclusion that a soldiers blind patriotism is what allows nations to convince young men to kill for corporate interests and not in national defense.
Again Cicero, you display your ignorance. You confuse the war with the Warrior. You have no idea why men decide to join the military. They put themselves at risk to protect America... It's up to the American people to make sure that their sacrifice is worthy of the mission. They do not choose the battle... they have no voice in where or when they fight... The Where, Why and When are left up to the American people and the leaders America elects.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
You have no idea why men decide to join the military. They put themselves at risk to protect America...It's up to the American people to make sure that their sacrifice is worthy of the mission. They do not choose the battle... they have no voice in where or when they fight... The Where, Why and When are left up to the American people and the leaders America elects.
I don't know where to start...I guess I'll start with my original post on this thread that commended Nugent for allegedly presenting himself to the draft board in a way that would assure he wasn't drafted to "fight"(kill) in the Vietnam War. And I followed that up by stating that if MORE people were not blinded by unquestioning "patriotism" we would have less people willing to fight(kill) in unjust wars taking pictures with dead corpses like they were trophies.
Second, If my children were of age when they could join the military, there is NO WAY I would support them joining the military. I have the luxury of looking back over the last 50 years of American conflict, and I cannot find ONE instance of justified war. With that knowledge, there is no way I would subject my children to the U.S. ruthless killing machine. So conscientious objection starts at a very early age.
The fact that there are pictures of American soldiers taking pictures with dead corpses and the American public doesn't give two shits and hasn't shown one bit of outrage, leads me to believe the psychology of our society has been desensitized to war and killing to such a degree that there will never be any public opposition to make it stop.
Third, The Where, Why, When to fight/invade/kill is NO LONGER LEFT UP TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Wars are not declared by the peoples house of representatives. As a matter of fact, our most recent killing in Libya was executed on the orders of the UN, and I doubt very highly, if and when we go into Iran, it will be declared a war by congress.
Box, as an Ex Marine, please tell me how you square that circle with the oath you took to uphold the Constitution? Our soldiers are killing based on international orders for the benefit of international corporations.
I don't know where to start...I guess I'll start with my original post on this thread that commended Nugent for allegedly presenting himself to the draft board in a way that would assure he wasn't drafted to "fight"(kill) in the Vietnam War. And I followed that up by stating that if MORE people were not blinded by unquestioning "patriotism" we would have less people willing to fight(kill) in unjust wars taking pictures with dead corpses like they were trophies.
Second, If my children were of age when they could join the military, there is NO WAY I would support them joining the military. I have the luxury of looking back over the last 50 years of American conflict, and I cannot find ONE instance of justified war. With that knowledge, there is no way I would subject my children to the U.S. ruthless killing machine. So conscientious objection starts at a very early age.
The fact that there are pictures of American soldiers taking pictures with dead corpses and the American public doesn't give two shits and hasn't shown one bit of outrage, leads me to believe the psychology of our society has been desensitized to war and killing to such a degree that there will never be any public opposition to make it stop.
Third, The Where, Why, When to fight/invade/kill is NO LONGER LEFT UP TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Wars are not declared by the peoples house of representatives. As a matter of fact, our most recent killing in Libya was executed on the orders of the UN, and I doubt very highly, if and when we go into Iran, it will be declared a war by congress.
Box, as an Ex Marine, please tell me how you square that circle with the oath you took to uphold the Constitution? Our soldiers are killing based on international orders for the benefit of international corporations.
Keep going Cicero... The more you post on this subject, the more you show your total lack of knowledge.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Box...you cannot make him understand so don't frustrate yourself with trying. I've been reading these rantings and the new one he posted and am just shaking my head in disbelief...and it's best I end it there. SemperFi jarhead.
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
Nugent says had "solid" meeting with Secret Service OKLAHOMA CITY | Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:43pm EDT
(Reuters) - Musician and gun-rights advocate Ted Nugent said on Thursday he had a positive meeting with U.S. Secret Service agents investigating his recent criticism of President Barack Obama, and the agency confirmed the issue had been resolved.
Nugent, who told NRA supporters in St. Louis last week that he would be "dead or in jail" next year if Obama was reelected, said in a statement that he had "met with two fine, professional Secret Service agents" in Oklahoma.
"Good, solid, professional meeting concluding that I have never made any threats of violence towards anyone. The meeting could not have gone better," the 63-year-old singer and guitarist said. He was due to perform a concert in Ardmore, Oklahoma on Thursday.
The Secret Service, which is tasked with protecting the U.S. president, senior officials and other figures, confirmed the meeting with Nugent.
"The Secret Service interview of Ted Nugent has been completed," agency spokesman Brian Leary said. "The issue has been resolved. The Secret Service does not anticipate any further action."
~ “The war is coming to the streets of America and if you are not keeping and bearing and practicing with your arms then you will be helpless and you will be the victim of evil.”
~ “I have busted more hippies’ noses than all the narcs in the free world.”
~ “And in my mind, I’m going why can’t I just shoot this [Hate Krishna] guy in the spine right now; shoot him in the spine, explain the facts of life to him. — WRIF-FM, Detroit, Ted Nugent as guest D.J., Sept. 28, 1990
~ “Obama, he’s a piece of sh-t, and I told him to suck on my machine gun … Hey Hillary, you might want to ride one of these into the sunset, you worthless b—t … Any questions? Freeeeeeeeeeeedom!!!!!” — on stage in 2007
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Who cares about Ted Nugent? Let's talk about the patriotic draft dodgers that were able to see through the State propaganda pushing our country into undeclared war. 58,000 Americans dead, millions of Vietnames dead. For what? We will be asking the same question about Afghanistan and Iraq.
I guess the person who started this thread "cares about Ted Nugent".
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Wouldn't ya love to see Cic at a gathering of vets, explaining his views on patriotism.....................
Yeah...I know it's a controversial view and uncomfortable for many. This isn't personal toward any particular veteran. My father was a Marine (or should I say "once a marine, always a marine"). He has been out for decades, and he still feels part of the club.
When a nation’s leaders misuse propaganda to control an army and convince a population to kill on the leaders behalf with no questions asked, we end up with an imperialist army going around the world waging offensive wars for reason other than national security - usually for profit and resources.
Box-a-Rox turned me on to the book War is a Racket...I don't understand why my views on patriotism are so shocking. The book clearly outlines the lies that have been told to get nations into wars, and almost never is to "protect freedom" or the other slogans that are used to sell war.
I feel sorry for the veteran whose minds have been colonized with nationalism and patriotism. But I understand it is necessary for a soldier to do their job. Killing is a horrible occupation.
I hope people aren't taking this as a personal attack, my opinions are meant to be interpreted in a macro sense. I admire the veteran and weep for the veteran at the same time. I understand their necessity to defend the nation, but how they are misused is a tragedy.
I find the bantering on this subject quite amusing to say the least!!
Ron Paul would tend to agree with cic here.........and Ron Paul has gotten more military support HISTORICALLY then any other president. And although I respect all men and women, past and present, in uniform....there are MANY that will not 're-up' due to the 'government created wars'. We are a family of vets and some presently serving..............they would beg to differ with boxy and alias. They say...'walk a mile in my boots'!
It's a different war today fellas! Just like Nam was different than 'the big ones'. These uniformed men/women are fighting to protect the constitution as well, which they too see threatened. Their question is.....'what ARE we fighting for'? 'What did I sign up to defend'?
TRUTH!!!
It's not Nam anymore guys.....it's 2012 and there's a new global cowboy in town!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Yeah...I know it's a controversial view and uncomfortable for many. This isn't personal toward any particular veteran. My father was a Marine (or should I say "once a marine, always a marine"). He has been out for decades, and he still feels part of the club.
When a nation’s leaders misuse propaganda to control an army and convince a population to kill on the leaders behalf with no questions asked, we end up with an imperialist army going around the world waging offensive wars for reason other than national security - usually for profit and resources.
Box-a-Rox turned me on to the book War is a Racket...I don't understand why my views on patriotism are so shocking. The book clearly outlines the lies that have been told to get nations into wars, and almost never is to "protect freedom" or the other slogans that are used to sell war.
I feel sorry for the veteran whose minds have been colonized with nationalism and patriotism. But I understand it is necessary for a soldier to do their job. Killing is a horrible occupation.
I hope people aren't taking this as a personal attack, my opinions are meant to be interpreted in a macro sense. I admire the veteran and weep for the veteran at the same time. I understand their necessity to defend the nation, but how they are misused is a tragedy.
I hear ya......................wasn't making any judgements one way or the other.........................sometimes I read stuff and chuckle to myself
I find the bantering on this subject quite amusing to say the least!!
Ron Paul would tend to agree with cic here.........and Ron Paul has gotten more military support HISTORICALLY then any other president. And although I respect all men and women, past and present, in uniform....there are MANY that will not 're-up' due to the 'government created wars'. We are a family of vets and some presently serving..............they would beg to differ with boxy and alias. They say...'walk a mile in my boots'!
It's a different war today fellas! Just like Nam was different than 'the big ones'. These uniformed men/women are fighting to protect the constitution as well, which they too see threatened. Their question is.....'what ARE we fighting for'? 'What did I sign up to defend'?
TRUTH!!!
It's not Nam anymore guys.....it's 2012 and there's a new global cowboy in town!
Yeah...I know it's a controversial view and uncomfortable for many. This isn't personal toward any particular veteran. My father was a Marine (or should I say "once a marine, always a marine"). He has been out for decades, and he still feels part of the club.
When a nation’s leaders misuse propaganda to control an army and convince a population to kill on the leaders behalf with no questions asked, we end up with an imperialist army going around the world waging offensive wars for reason other than national security - usually for profit and resources.
Box-a-Rox turned me on to the book War is a Racket...I don't understand why my views on patriotism are so shocking. The book clearly outlines the lies that have been told to get nations into wars, and almost never is to "protect freedom" or the other slogans that are used to sell war.
I feel sorry for the veteran whose minds have been colonized with nationalism and patriotism. But I understand it is necessary for a soldier to do their job. Killing is a horrible occupation.
I hope people aren't taking this as a personal attack, my opinions are meant to be interpreted in a macro sense. I admire the veteran and weep for the veteran at the same time. I understand their necessity to defend the nation, but how they are misused is a tragedy.
Once again, Cicero's posts show how little he understands about the military. He keeps confusing the war with the warrior, as if they were the same thing. Cic should have a long talk with his dad... maybe his father can explain the facts to him. I'm afraid there is a wall between Cic and any facts... his opinion has always overrode facts.
Cicero's post: I feel sorry for the veteran whose minds have been colonized with nationalism and patriotism. really shows his distorted view of the military.
~ Cic can write a book on space travel... even though he's never been in space... then tell Neil Armstrong that his view of space is distorted ~ Cic can write a dissertation on how it feels to be a test pilot... then tell Chuck Yeager that he got his autobiography all wrong and ~ Cic can write a post on why men fight in the military... then tell actual warriors that they are incorrect... because Cic read an article on war once.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
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