I hope that this attempt to establish another charter school falls flat on its face. .
So, DV, you OPPOSE allowing parents to have any CHOICE in the education of their children?
The government is the ONLY entity that can educate children, right?
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
So, DV, you OPPOSE allowing parents to have any CHOICE in the education of their children?
The government is the ONLY entity that can educate children, right?
Yes, as any good Democrat, he opposes choice only after the child escapes from the womb. Up until then, you should have the choice, after that, all of life should be decided by the government a.k.a. those who know better than you, but at the same time, he refuses to put any children through the program as it is run now... or ever.
The current educational system is doing such a great job teaching the kids that they can't pass state tests and have a graduation rate of 58% after having truck loads of money thrown at the problem.
The current educational system is doing such a great job teaching the kids that they can't pass state tests and have a graduation rate of 58% after having truck loads of money thrown at the problem.
What I see as the problem IS all the tests. Why teach so that children can pass tests? What good is that going to do? They need to be taught so they can succeed in the real world, not to be able to pass tests.
Test prove that the kids in school are literate and on par with the rest of the USA. Tests have been around for years, you know Regents exams, SAT's and when you apply for a job the employers make you take a test as well to prove that you can read and comprehend what you read. How else can you measure how well students are doing?
Test prove that the kids in school are literate and on par with the rest of the USA. Tests have been around for years, you know Regents exams, SAT's and when you apply for a job the employers make you take a test as well to prove that you can read and comprehend what you read. How else can you measure how well students are doing?
Each teacher teaches different things, just like each teacher has students that need different things, or amounts of time on things. I don't mind there being tests, but the tests should be set up by the individual teachers / school districts. After all, you do realize that just because you get a specific score on a test doesn't mean that's what you're score actually is, right? We used to call that being graded on a curve, but it's now how they grade the state mandated tests, too. I guess it only matters if your in front of or behind the curve. From what I understand, even the SAT's are now on a curve, not an actual grade.
There in lies the real problem, giving students a passing grade when they didn't deserve one. When you take a test it should be the same test that is given to all schools and no marking on the curve just honest test score. When they started the crap where nobody loses when games are played, nobody fails a grade because you might hurt their feelings, and teachers keep getting raises even when they do a lousy job, how is this not a recipe for failure.
Yes, as any good Democrat, he opposes choice only after the child escapes from the womb. Up until then, you should have the choice, after that, all of life should be decided by the government a.k.a. those who know better than you, but at the same time, he refuses to put any children through the program as it is run now... or ever.
Once again, you have chosen to lie rather than state my position as I clearly explained it. I do not believe in taxation without representation. Charter Schools use tax dollars but are NOT accountable to the voters in any way. THAT is my objection to Charter Schools.
As for CHOICE in schools -- if the state adopted a voucher system funded ENTIRELY from the state income tax and 0% from any property tax-- and if it provided $x per pupil (so that students in EVERY part of the state get the same $ amount spent on their education) ... than I would have no problem with parents being able to choose to spend the voucher in public school, parochial school, private school or charter school of their choice because the Governor and State Legislators who write and approve the state budget are accountable to the voters.
And before you spew back some vile retort and call me a "commie, liberal" -which I am absolutely NOT - I should state that my position is one that has been proposed by conservative Republicans and conservative Democrats in other parts of the country for at least the past 35 years.
George Amedore & Christian Klueg for NYS Senate 2016 Pete Vroman for State Assembly 2016[/size][/color]
"For this is what America is all about. It is the uncrossed desert and the unclimbed ridge. It is the star that is not reached and the harvest that is sleeping in the unplowed ground." Lyndon Baines Johnson
What I see as the problem IS all the tests. Why teach so that children can pass tests? What good is that going to do? They need to be taught so they can succeed in the real world, not to be able to pass tests.
You have to pass tests to become a nurse, a doctor, a lawyer....heck, you even have to be able to pass a test to apply for cushy state jobs. Learning how to take and pass tests is a skill needed in the real world. Of course teaching shouldn't be geared towards only passing tests, but to imply that everyone is so individualistic that there is no way to measure if they are competent in basic math and reading is poppycock. Our kids can't read, they can't form sentences, and they can add and subtract well enough to even make change without being given the answer. I went back to college a few years ago after a 20+ hiatus and was shocked to the complete lack of reading comprehension and writing skills of today's high school graduates.
There needs to be state and national standards so we know that the next generation has the skills needed to compete in the world because right now they can't.
You have a 58 percent graduation rate in Schenectady. Let me ask you all this: What's the graduation rate at this new charter school?
Wait. I'll answer that for you: ZERO PERCENT.
Now, there's a chance this POS will get off the ground. And there's a chance that it will do very well. And then what will its graduation rate be?
No don't get up. Let me get that for you: ZERO PERCENT.
Why? Because this worthless proposal doesn't have a high school. So all these kids need to be pumped back into the public schools where they came from, because none of the parents are going to be able to afford private schools. Charter schools were crackpot initiative approved under a crack pot governor, who thought he could get around teachers' unions by privatizing education. The theory was that if everyone starts to go to charter schools, the public schools will be forced to compete or close. But education ain't capitalism, and schools simply don't work like that. Sadly, as bad as some schools are, the public/private education system actually works. Charter schools, for the most part, don't. They're a money grab for unscrupulous people who find it alright to rape tax payers for there own benefit. It's unfathomable to me why any of you would even blink an eyelash of support for this new proposal after seeing what happened to the last one these freaks puked out.
They're a money grab for unscrupulous people who find it alright to rape tax payers for there own benefit.
Really? Did you follow the Raucci trial? Is that what you mean by scrupulous public school? How about a public school principal, former county legislator and former Rotterdam town board member, moving out of the poor, failing school district(Schenectady) where she collects her paycheck from, in order to send her children to a BETTER suburban school district(Mohanasen) for scrupulous? That's the reverse Robin Hood, taking from the poor in order to benefit the rich. Compulsory schooling is a failure in immoral and the poor are hurt the most.
You have to pass tests to become a nurse, a doctor, a lawyer....heck, you even have to be able to pass a test to apply for cushy state jobs. Learning how to take and pass tests is a skill needed in the real world. Of course teaching shouldn't be geared towards only passing tests, but to imply that everyone is so individualistic that there is no way to measure if they are competent in basic math and reading is poppycock. Our kids can't read, they can't form sentences, and they can add and subtract well enough to even make change without being given the answer. I went back to college a few years ago after a 20+ hiatus and was shocked to the complete lack of reading comprehension and writing skills of today's high school graduates.
There needs to be state and national standards so we know that the next generation has the skills needed to compete in the world because right now they can't.
OK, yes, there are tests that you MAY have to take in the real world to get jobs, but there’s also a lot of jobs that you don’t have to take tests for. Also, some people decide that the testing is not for them, so after they get through their 13 years of state mandated testing, they decide to go for a job that employs them using skilled labor, a different type of knowledge that cannot be tested on a piece of paper. I’m not implying that everyone is so individualistic that you can’t tell the difference from student to student, but it used to be that you could tell the difference between someone who had books smarts and someone who could actually think on their feet. This is something that has become lost since No Child Left Behind (which should actually be called No Child Gets An Education). You do realize that since this has been enacted (which created all the testing that goes on now), the economy was better, and people found it much easier to succeed when they got to the real world, right?
I went back to college a few years ago after a 20+ hiatus and was shocked to the complete lack of reading comprehension and writing skills of today's high school graduates.
Congratulations on going back to college. The fact of the matter is your comment shows that you don’t understand your own point in the above paragraph. You’re stating that there is “a complete lack of reading comprehension and writing skills of today’s high school graduates.” These are the same graduates that you state NEED to and ARE learning to pass these tests, and ONLY to pass the tests. They are the ones who believe and have been taught that “learning how to take and pass tests is a skill needed in the real world.” They’re to the point where they can pick out enough key words in order to understand how they need to reply, or remember from wrote memory what it is they need to say in order to pass. They don’t know how to live in the real world, and we all suffer for it, but let’s make sure they can pass those tests in college, too, in order to get out to the real world, then they don’t know what they’re doing there. Hopefully all they have to do is take tests, not actually do anything.
They passed the tests that you say are so needed. And you prove that they’re none the better, so why keep up the charade?
I was interested that at Schalmont, they are now actually looking to implement something for the 5th grade classes that are now over at the Middle School. They think that it's a good idea, hence, trying trials, to see if grouping children together with like learning skills (slower learners, faster learners, better readers, etc.) helps them to learn better, and they noticed that it is more productive. Ironically, this is the same school that WAS DOING THAT 20 years ago, before No Child Left Behind, which did away with it, because everybody needed to be together. There are issues when you treat everyone the same. You get the same old issues. If you treat people like they need to be treated (and that doesn't mean handouts, that means hand-UPS), they more will succeed.
OK, yes, there are tests that you MAY have to take in the real world to get jobs, but there’s also a lot of jobs that you don’t have to take tests for. Also, some people decide that the testing is not for them, so after they get through their 13 years of state mandated testing, they decide to go for a job that employs them using skilled labor, a different type of knowledge that cannot be tested on a piece of paper. I’m not implying that everyone is so individualistic that you can’t tell the difference from student to student, but it used to be that you could tell the difference between someone who had books smarts and someone who could actually think on their feet. This is something that has become lost since No Child Left Behind (which should actually be called No Child Gets An Education). You do realize that since this has been enacted (which created all the testing that goes on now), the economy was better, and people found it much easier to succeed when they got to the real world, right?
Congratulations on going back to college. The fact of the matter is your comment shows that you don’t understand your own point in the above paragraph. You’re stating that there is “a complete lack of reading comprehension and writing skills of today’s high school graduates.” These are the same graduates that you state NEED to and ARE learning to pass these tests, and ONLY to pass the tests. They are the ones who believe and have been taught that “learning how to take and pass tests is a skill needed in the real world.” They’re to the point where they can pick out enough key words in order to understand how they need to reply, or remember from wrote memory what it is they need to say in order to pass. They don’t know how to live in the real world, and we all suffer for it, but let’s make sure they can pass those tests in college, too, in order to get out to the real world, then they don’t know what they’re doing there. Hopefully all they have to do is take tests, not actually do anything.
They passed the tests that you say are so needed. And you prove that they’re none the better, so why keep up the charade?
I was interested that at Schalmont, they are now actually looking to implement something for the 5th grade classes that are now over at the Middle School. They think that it's a good idea, hence, trying trials, to see if grouping children together with like learning skills (slower learners, faster learners, better readers, etc.) helps them to learn better, and they noticed that it is more productive. Ironically, this is the same school that WAS DOING THAT 20 years ago, before No Child Left Behind, which did away with it, because everybody needed to be together. There are issues when you treat everyone the same. You get the same old issues. If you treat people like they need to be treated (and that doesn't mean handouts, that means hand-UPS), they more will succeed.
I think you're under the impression that if they fail the exams that they fail the grade or don't graduate. That is not the case. A kid fails the third grade reading exam and it does not keep them from moving to the fourth grade...it just means they move to the fourth grade and can't read well. And then they move to fifth grade and can't read and sixth grade.... They are graduating and moving onto college without ever having learned those early educational skills.
You are right that No Child Left Behind is a failed initiative and that even too many of those who do pass these tests are still lacking in basic academic skills but that does not mean that there is no validity in testing. 30 years ago when we had the tracked programs that you mention (low, middle, high learners) there was still the state testing. And you are right, kids overall did much better under that system because the pace and style was geared more to skill levels. But even those "lower learners" where passing third grade reading comprehension skills tests at higher levels then students are now. The problem is not the testing, we need to be able in some way assess if our educational methods are working, it is the current forms of teaching which do not emphasis strong knowledge in the basics. Someone recently described it to me as children are being taught a mile wide and an inch deep....a lot of everything, but not much of any one thing. What we need is the mile deep and an inch wide...or at least in early education. If/when we go back to a mile deep and an inch wide (which will require the return to tracked classes because different children will require different speeds and methods of instructions) then I think we will see children passing these tests again at higher levels.
Report warns US educational failures pose national security threat
By Kathleen Foster
Published April 12, 2012
FoxNews.com
A new report finds that the United States' education system is putting the country's national security at risk.
The independent study, sponsored by The Council on Foreign Relations, finds K-12 school systems across the country are failing to adequately prepare kids to grow up and protect the U.S.
"For starters, we don't have nearly enough people who are capable in the STEM fields: science, technology, engineering and math," said former Secretary of Education Margaret Spellings, a member of the council's task force that wrote the report, titled "U.S. Education Reform and National Security."
"When we think about the modern world of defense," Spellings said, "the fact that we don't have people who are capable to do this work is scary."
In addition to skills needed to defend ourselves in war, the study found American schools fail to teach students skills needed to avoid conflicts.
"We don't have people who know and understand foreign languages and other cultures," said Spelling, pointing out that U.S. children are ranked No. 17 in the world for language skills. "On any given day, there are hundreds of (job) vacancies for people who speak Pashtu and Arabic, and Mandarin and on and on."
The Council on Foreign Relations report was chaired by former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and former New York City Department of Education Chancellor Joel Klein.
It states America's educational failures pose five distinct threats to national security:
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