Police power in fire cases?

Schenectady wants two fire investigators to be part of the DA's office
By Lauren Stanforth
Published 09:28 p.m., Sunday, April 1, 2012


SCHENECTADY — The city wants two fire investigators to become members of the district attorney's office, providing them with police powers to carry weapons and make arrests so Schenectady can more effectively go after arsonists.

Typically, fire officials determine a blaze's cause, and then police take statements and interview witnesses in pursuit of a possible arson charge. But in a March 21 letter to Schenectady County District Attorney Robert Carney, Schenectady Fire Chief Michael Della Rocco said "Our fire investigators have been quite successful in determining cause and origin, but are often unable to effectively proceed in their investigations because they lack law enforcement status," he wrote.

Carney said in a letter to County Attorney Christopher Gardner that the city police department is too understaffed to devote the needed time to "question witnesses, obtain insurance and claim information, examine forensic evidence, and interrogate suspects." The Schenectady County Legislature will discuss the matter at its meeting Monday night.

Schenectady Mayor Gary McCarthy, a former district attorney investigator, said Sunday that he believes the disconnect between the fire and police departments has led to incomplete work on possible arson cases, although he would not elaborate on specific examples. When asked if the police department has been unwilling to assist the fire department, McCarthy said he would not comment.

A recent fatal case, a December 2010 fire on McClellan Street, still has resulted in no cause being announced and no arrest. After that fire, the body of Patrick Sheehan wasn't found until the city went to demolish the building three weeks later. At the time, the fire was declared suspicious and Sheehan's death was being investigated as a homicide.

Carney says in his letter that Police Chief Mark Chaires, who couldn't be reached for comment Sunday, supports fire officials working under the umbrella of the district attorney's office.

"This isn't to cut out the police or to criticize the police," Carney said Sunday. "This is recognition that this is pretty specialized and labor intensive."

Della Rocco's letter is dated only a few days after a March 17 fire ravaged a building at 605 Union St., the cause of which is still under investigation. McCarthy said that particular case has not spurned on the request. Last year, the city tried to get arson investigators peace officer status through the state Legislature, but the matter was never brought to a vote.

Deputy Fire Chief Scott Doherty and Capt. Doug Faulisi are being recommended for the task, which would entail making them district attorney investigators who are assigned to the city fire department's investigation unit. They would continue to be paid by the city. By being designated district attorney investigators, the firefighters could also carry a deadly weapon and make arrests. But McCarthy said city police would accompany the arson investigators if a situation is dangerous or if a suspect is taken into custody.

They would still, however, receive training at the Zone 5 Law Enforcement Academy in basic police skills. Doherty and Faulisi would also be available if the district attorney's office needed their specialities on suspicious fires outside the city. McCarthy did not know if they would be paid by the county or local municipalities for such tasks. The city also would continue to work closely with the federal bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms when conducting its own investigations.

Gardner has recommended the County Legislature approve the partnership. McCarthy, however, said he thinks Carney can appoint the fire investigators without the need for City Council's approval.


Read more: http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Police-power-in-fire-cases-3451500.php#ixzz1qrEGjiRx

Quoted from mikechristine1

          that the city police department is too understaffed to devote the needed time

A recent fatal case, a December 2010 fire on McClellan Street, still has resulted in no cause being announced and no arrest. After that fire, the body of Patrick Sheehan wasn't found until the city went to demolish the building three weeks later. At the time, the fire was declared suspicious and Sheehan's death was being investigated as a homicide.

Uh, hello?   Understaffed?   Why?     Too many cops out on vaca, comp time off, etc?    

Or, not enough money to pay for more cops because McC knows it would be his death if he raised taxes too much on the financially struggling homeonwers who pay almost the highest taxes in THE WHOLE COUNTRY -- well, how about rescinding those 100% tax exemptions on the millionaires downtown, then can raise the levy while at the same time lower the tax BILLs on homeonwers.  

Or how about stop letting the cops take the long pleasure drives (for their daily ride back and forth to work) in the expensive vehicles at taxpayers' expense

Take away all the lucative OT to pad their pensions and there DEFINITELY would be money to hire more cops IF that is what is needed.

Force the cops---who are paid by CITY TAXPAYERS--to live IN THE CITY and FORCE the cops to experience the same quality of life as those who pay their salary, and force the cops to experience the SAME HIGH tax bills as those who pay their salary.


Over a year ago and still no resolution on that fire on McClellan & Eastren?   Gee, having those evidence techs speed into the city in expensive taxpayer funded SUV's didn't do diddly squat, did it!

Oh yeah, how about the fire next to the Manhattan exchange that they demolished the evidence?  


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wow

So the city is so broke from their irresponsible love affair with spending, that it can't afford more police protection that now they have to summons the fire fighters to carry guns?

Or is it that the police 'cost too much'?

Or is it because the city is so crime ridden that they need as much help as possible?

And will this mean that the firefighters that carry guns will be paid more? Where will they get their training? Who will pay for the extra training?

This sounds like a 'bad shooting accident' ready to happen....yes?

When you mix politicians influence, DA's office, in with fire investigation it could breed corruption of allowing certain cases to be investigated less thoroughly than others due to political pressures.

too many chiefs and not enough Indians.....and this leads to the corruption....wow.....what a world we live in....

The primary reason why SFD personnel should obtain police powers is that they have the expertise to determine cause.  It has always made more sense
to teach SFD personnel how to conduct interviews and basic investigative procedures, than, it does to try and keep police detecives trained and current on
arson investigations.

And as usual, the kitchen sink disussion of issues totslly unrelated to the problem.

Quoted from bumblethru

So the city is so broke from their irresponsible love affair with spending, that it can't afford more police protection that now they have to summons the fire fighters to carry guns?

Or is it that the police 'cost too much'?

Or is it because the city is so crime ridden that they need as much help as possible?

And will this mean that the firefighters that carry guns will be paid more? Where will they get their training? Who will pay for the extra training?

This sounds like a 'bad shooting accident' ready to happen....yes?

Then again, i almost think any emergency personell in this city should be packing for their own protection.  

ONLY idiotic nayboobs would argue with the fact that the Firemen HAVE the experience and expertise NEEDED to determine HOW the fires got started and IF there was arson......   but nayboobs DON'T care that our valued seniors and children face death at the hands of arsonists and other criminal perpetrators. It is FAR easier to teach fire investigators how to learn interrogation and other policing procedures RATHER than teach Police Officers how to be arson investigators. Assholes can only tear DOWN our uniformed First Responders but the vast majority of people wish to build them UP! I applaud the Mayor and OTHER members of the Administration in making our government more efficient and intelligent......  Thank you, Mr. Mayor and staff.

Quoted from Hamburg

ONLY idiotic nayboobs would argue with the fact that the Firemen HAVE the experience and expertise NEEDED to determine HOW the fires got started and IF there was arson......   but nayboobs DON'T care that our valued seniors and children face death at the hands of arsonists and other criminal perpetrators. It is FAR easier to teach fire investigators how to learn interrogation and other policing procedures RATHER than teach Police Officers how to be arson investigators. Assholes can only tear DOWN our uniformed First Responders but the vast majority of people wish to build them UP! I applaud the Mayor and OTHER members of the Administration in making our government more efficient and intelligent......  Thank you, Mr. Mayor and staff.

What a STUPID comment !!!!!!!!!!   How UTTERLY STUPID can you be?

Tell us WHY the SPD is understaffed??????

How about there is not enough in the budget to pay more staff because the existing ones are manipulating the system with calling in, taking time off, etc, so that those nearing their retirement can build up the OT which then gives them bloated pensions.

And THAT causes taxes to go up.

The over course, McC (like Stratton before him) are exempting millionaires downtown which causes the taxes on the financially struggling homeowners to go up even more--to cover the cost of the taxes of the properties owned by the millioniares.

Explain WHY millionaires should be exempt from taxes and familiess with household incomes of just $30,000 should pay almost the highest taxes in the country???

Oh yeah, ham will NOT answer those questions.  


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calling in and taking time of would do nothing to improve the earnings of those earning OT.  The OT is assignment specific - an evidence technician cannot work in place of a detective

multi tasking is now required in all careers...

Quoted from Patches

multi tasking is now required in all careers...

Union contracts are ridged.  There is no wiggle room for cross training and multi tasking, only and excuse for another public employee "specialist" for that single task.  How else are you supposed to expand union membership and power?

Spoke with some firefighters about carrying guns. The ones we spoke to are dead set against it. Why....and most importantly....THEY FIGHT FIRES....period! They also said that armed cops are at the scene of all fires/emt calls.

Lastly, once some firefighters in the community are known to be armed, the bad guys out there will likely assume that all firefighters in the community are armed. Most importantly, firefighters and EMS personnel may no longer be viewed by some in the community as the good guys, but rather as armed agents of an the oppressive government.

Clearly and obviously NOT a good idea!!

Quoted from visitor

calling in and taking time of would do nothing to improve the earnings of those earning OT.  The OT is assignment specific - an evidence technician cannot work in place of a detective

So, what you are saying is that an officer calls in and no one is assigned to fill in for him/her.   Hardly