TiB Failure to discipline?  Did you sleep through the last several years?

Quoted from Hamburg

I am not obligated to respond to ANYTHING you say..   You are a noted and worthless hermaphrodite EARTHWORM who is constantly attempting to send our lovely County back to the DARK AGE..  I wait for the day that you are rounded up and imprisoned for life and can only HOPE our elected officials realize the urgency in getting rid of your ilk.  I DO know our men and women in uniform are anxious to do so -- we only await our fair Governor's hand to drop -- thus sending the signal to cut off your heads for the good of societal improvement....

So, YOU support cops who brutalize citizens?   You support cops who steal from the taxpyers?  You support cops that break into cars and steal.   You support cops when they watch their children bowl while on the taxpayers dime.   You support cops dealing drugs?   You support cops beating their wives/girlsfriends?   You support cops going out to a bar (off the clock), drinking, and then getting in their car to drive.   You support cops that moonlight on second job during their police shift?    You support cops that spend 4 hours  getting paid overtime while they are sleeping somewhere?    You support cops that steal drugs from an evidence room and then use those drugs themselves?  You support police who take every advantage to pad their pensions.   You support police who get paid 2 and 3 times their base pay and forcing financially struggling homewoners to pay those fat salaries?   You support cops going on pleasure drives in expensive police vehicles while the taxpayers who have to pay these costs lose their homes due to inability to pay the taxes to pay the cops the execcesive fat salaries?

You support all these things?

I know cop's jobs are dangerous and such.   But having a dangerous job does NOT entitle the cop to take long pleasure drives on the taxpyaers' dime!  Having a dangerous job is not an acceptable reason for them to drink and drive, steal, use drugs, etc.  

Quoted from visitor

TiB Failure to discipline?  Did you sleep through the last several years?

The punishment never fit the crimes.  They should be held to a higher standard.  They either need to be roll models entirely and punished more severely than a regular citizen.  

TiB

That would be unconstitutional.  They are punished as any other citizen would be.  

And, when they lose their job it amounts to more than a million dollar fine.  for example, unless pension eligible they lose the pension they would have received upon retirement (50% of best final three average) and their health care costs.  That's a big hit.  

I have never heard of someone losing their job in the private sector equating it to a million dollar fine! THAT is highly creative!! People lose their jobs in the private sector all the time for much less, and they are not the people we hold up to enforce the laws of the land. When you breath blue air for so long you no longer understand common sense and what is right, perhaps. The law-abiding taxpaying people have lost their sympathy for you and your criminal "I can do what I want" ways. But you still remain in denial, which is sad. Fully funded pensions for example are as modern an idea as sliderules. The state and local communities are nearing a dreadful day of reckoning via bankruptcy and no one seems to get it. Public spending on law enforcement and education for example, and the pension burdens involved (using the antiquated methods you defend) will send the State and local communities over that cliff within 5 to 10 years. Over. Done. Finished. Insolvent. But as sad as it is - you still can't do arithmetic. Stepping off to save 3 dollars here and 5 dollars there won't do.

Advice: open an IRA and save your money because your pension funds are so extravagant they will become worthless eventually. Maybe not for a 70 year old, but if you are a 20 year old cop planning to cash in like these 40 year old guys are all doing, I wouldn't get hopes up. When the municipalities go bankrupt, you can stand in line to get paid.

GB
Try and stay focused on the current discussion. The point was that in addition to criminal penalties they lose their benefits.    This was in response to the argument that police officers should pay a more severe criminal penalty.
The same would apply if a person had a private sector job and the arrest caused them to lose their benefits.  For example, a Dr. or attorney losing a license - it would be a collateral punichment in addition to the criminal sanction.  Pretty simple concept to understand.

RE: municipalities going bankrupt.  The pension fund is not insolvent, so unless taht happens the pensions will be paid.  And your revelation that the
pension system as it once was designed is unsustainable is really a banal observation - who din't know that? That was the purpose of implementing the new Tier % pension plan for police officers.  By the end of the existing police contract between 1/3 to 1/2 will be Tier 5 employees.   There is still the burden of the existing employees and pensioners.  And, anyone hired now pays 5% of health insurance into retirement and I suspect that percentage will continue to grow.

Maybe if you spent more time keeping up with current legal developments re: the pension system you wouldn't put forth such a poorly informed argument.

The police would be better off with a "TRACKER"......                 

Quoted from visitor

GB
Try and stay focused on the current discussion. The point was that in addition to criminal penalties they lose their benefits.    This was in response to the argument that police officers should pay a more severe criminal penalty.
The same would apply if a person had a private sector job and the arrest caused them to lose their benefits.  For example, a Dr. or attorney losing a license - it would be a collateral punichment in addition to the criminal sanction.  Pretty simple concept to understand.

RE: municipalities going bankrupt.  The pension fund is not insolvent, so unless taht happens the pensions will be paid.  And your revelation that the
pension system as it once was designed is unsustainable is really a banal observation - who din't know that? That was the purpose of implementing the new Tier % pension plan for police officers.  By the end of the existing police contract between 1/3 to 1/2 will be Tier 5 employees.   There is still the burden of the existing employees and pensioners.  And, anyone hired now pays 5% of health insurance into retirement and I suspect that percentage will continue to grow.

So change that law.  I dont think they should lose their pensions in these cases if they are convicted, but dont overcompensate them for the risk.  No reason.  These police are supposed to be law experts and roll models.  Do the right thing and you wont lose your pension pretty simple.

Wow they pay a whole 5% of the health insurance what a joke.  

So they get great pay.
Insane OT (4 hours for just tripping the OT clock)
Insane paid sick days regardless of using them or not accruing at an insane rate (10 days a year or more)
Insane amount of vacation time (In addition to the Sick days above)
Insane personal days
100% to 95% paid Health Insurance
Ability to retire under 50 years of age
Free company vehicle to drive home
Free gas
Free cell phone
Free gym membership (Waste of money)
Padded Pension (Done legally through memeber participation honor system)
Can collect pension and allowed to contine working (See Scotia Police cheif)

Quoted from visitor

.  And, anyone hired now pays 5% of health insurance into retirement and I suspect that percentage will continue to grow.

OHHHH! 5%! WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO!?


I am glad you have the degree in economics and not me... You seem to have it figured out. Keep hoping that the shrinking private sector will be able to catch up to the fast growing public sector.

And here is a pretty simple concept: when you get fired you do what others do and get another job. No one denied you your future perks but you- WHEN YOU DO SOMETHING TO BE FIRED. There is this concept of personal responsibility. It is not an additional fine. It is reality. Your pendulum has swung way too far in favor of the union. I understand it was once a crappy deal-30 years ago, but you have made a career gaming it. And you think that because people don't tell you to your face how ridiculous it is that 98% of the people (we will exclude your wives and moms) don't see it as a scam? But none of that would even be half as much of an insult if criminality and disobedience and disrespect was not rife. So you not only reach your whole hand into the cookie jar and empty it out and then lick it clean of crumbs, but as you walk out the door you spit in the face of the cookie baker who baked them for you. As you continue to do here.

Once again - the point was that in addition to criminal prosecution they fiorfeit a pension and benefits.  Nothing you have said refutes that point.

The word fine was used because it was anlogous to a negative sanction. And, it was in response to the suggestion that officers should receive more severe
criminal penalties.  I have no idea why you cannt understand this.

A scam?  Most police officers work hard, earn their money, and do not scam the system.  Sorry this topic makes you so emotional.  

TIB

They all get take home cars.

Honor system for OT

Free gym mebership

Justa few of the things yuo got wrong

How many cops does anyone think would QUIT if they had their gym memberships taken away? How many would quit if OT wasredesigned? How many would quit if they had their 'cars' taken away? etc.......

That's the irony of this all........THE COPS WOULD NEVER QUIT!!!

Cars, phones and -- paltry gym memberships are the LEAST we can do to assist them in their jobs.... The Nayboobs are IDIOTS to want to destroy effective policing -- yet they PERSIST in attempting to harm our uniformed First Responders.

Quoted from visitor

TIB

They all get take home cars.

Honor system for OT

Free gym mebership

Justa few of the things yuo got wrong

I know.  Your missing my point.   Almost none of the police and firemen and city employees should get take home cars.  When they do they should be taked according to Federal law.
None should get 4 hours OT for less than 4 hours OT
None should get free gym memberships.

These cops make more than anyone in the service, most executives, more than most senators and congressmen.  Their pensions are also more than the same group.  This isnt about service or risk or their intelligence.  Half of them couldnt have passed 4 years of a real college.  This is about the union leverage.  You want to split hairs.  Nothing can justify half of the compensation, benefits and retirement they receive.  The performance is subpar.  Either they have an impossible job due to the current administrations failure or they have it easy due to the administrations major improvements and they are subperforming......cant have it both ways.  

Regardless of your great statistics, the results of both groups work have led to Schenectady being the laughing stock of the region and the general concensus of the taxpayers that we are imploding........