I never said they were professional fighters, but I have talked to enough officers to know they have been trained in hand to hand combat. That's not even the point or suggestion, my suggestion was for use of night stick, pepper spray, or taser. If a mentally ill person armed with a knife isn't a situation where you use those non lethal options. What is a situation when they do use those non lethal options? Are those saved for women, children and the elderly?
My thought is using a night stick or pepper spray against a mentally unstable person coming at you with a knife from 5' away is foolish. The Police Commissioner stated that tasers are not meant for that situation since the individual is too close. Seems reasonable to me on that point but I am in no way an expert on Tasers.
To answer your question, I think non lethal options should be used when the life of an officer or someone else isn't in immediate danger.
You know who was a real lawman? The officer of 30 or 40 years ago and beyond who were on the same level as the assailants, often armed with a .38 and a billy club and INTERPERSONAL SKILLS. They as often had to use those skills to end what might be an otherwise tragic situation, ever mindful of the power they had and how they needed to protect an individual from himself and the rest of the public from their unintended bullets. Today, we have high capacity mags, a shoot first mentality. body armor, a militaristic and intimidating presence and a bad attitude that says to all " STAY THE F OUTTA' MY WAY." Soon they will drive Hummers instead of cruisers because today we have to have an ARMY instead of a policing force.
Of course the old days are gone and now we have loudmouths, treating citizens on message boards with sarcasm and a 'F-you' demeanor. Does the 'academy' offer a course in how to be a dipschit to the public when circling the blue wagons?
Hyper-political, with a "the same law doesn't apply to me" mind set, flipping the middle finger to people he doesn't agree with who have the audacity to stand up to the politicians and policing authorities? Your life might be different if you were not above the law, but you know you are, and that we are not. If I was not so cowardly I might say something here about what I am seeing happening to that profession.
"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
Of course we only know what "happened" from the media and the Commish. Just some thoughts.
The Gazette keeps its front door locked. A man shows up and asks for a glass of water. How many businessess will open their doors nowadays to give someone a glass of water?
Then the guy rambles around for what 45 minutes and police are called and don't feel it's an emergency by what they are told so they call the boss in?
The whole time the guy is not threatening anyone but acting "unstable" or "sick"
Police arrive and talk to him. Now just wondering why they didn't let a cop into a back door to take this guy down with a non lethal method? Pepper spray could have been used immediately when he didn't put the knive down. Just thinkin.
Police arrive and talk to him. Now just wondering why they didn't let a cop into a back door to take this guy down with a non lethal method? Pepper spray could have been used immediately when he didn't put th knive down. Just thinkin.
Don't go thinkin...Sit back and wait for the "official" report. The authorities will tell you exactly what happened. If you dare question the official report, you will be shamed by being reminded how dangerous it is to be a cop.
Since it happened inside the Gazette building, even the lazy Gazette reporters should be able to get the facts of the incident from their coworkers. Will they report the facts? That remains to be seen.
All I know from what I am reading in the media....
First....the guy knocked at the door asking for water. Allowed and invited to come in and was given water. He appeared very weak, leaning against the wall and bleeding and obviously gave no indication that he was going to 'attack' anyone...... not violent!!
Second....the media states that this guy has has been picked up recently by cops. So one would think that the cops already knew what they were dealing with and should have acted accordingly. Perhaps this was an issue for the EMT'S.
Third....one of our friends works at the psych unit and they deal with folks like this behavior and WORSE every single day and they never shoot anyone. Their question is that if this guy was that badly over medicated and suicidal, what was he doing OUT?? Perhaps this is a blatant medical oversight that went wrong....yes?
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
My thought is using a night stick or pepper spray against a mentally unstable person coming at you with a knife from 5' away is foolish. The Police Commissioner stated that tasers are not meant for that situation since the individual is too close. Seems reasonable to me on that point but I am in no way an expert on Tasers.
Why did the officers walk in and position themselves 5' away from a man with a knife? They knew what they walking into, they knew the man had a knife, they knew he was hydrated and served a water. The man didn't force his way in.
By the media report, it sounds like the cops put themselves in the compromising position.
All I know from what I am reading in the media....
First....the guy knocked at the door asking for water. Allowed and invited to come in and was given water. He appeared very weak, leaning against the wall and bleeding and obviously gave no indication that he was going to 'attack' anyone...... not violent!!
Second....the media states that this guy gas has been picked up recently by cops. So one would think that the cops already knew what they were dealing with and should have acted accordingly. Perhaps this was an issue for the EMT'S.
Third....one of our friends works at the physic unit and they deal with folks like this behavior and WORSE every single day and they never shoot anyone. Their question is that if this guy was that badly over medicated and suicidal, what was he doing OUT?? Perhaps this is a blatant medical oversight that went wrong....yes?
Third?....Agreed. I can only hope that was a typo though. "physics" is a course I took in high school.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
He was picked up at the request of Ellis Hospital....probably because he is in some mental program and needed a followup or someone called for intervention
with these people...they give them a cocktail (several meds) sometimes keep them for 48 hrs...then release them and they have the responsbility of reporting to a mental clinic once a week, month., etc..
So, you are right that this person was known for his mental state.
the mental health in this country does not really help indigitant (?) souls.
If you have money/ insurance you get the treatment you need
And there is no placement for these souls and no compassion or understanding from the public
I can only speak for myself, but maybe Graham will agree, is that people are losing faith in our hyper political police force and those in charge of investigating them. The police are losing public trust, and this is because Schenectady has one party rule, with the DA, City and County Legislators, and Judges are all playing for the same political team. With the police having enough political clout to keep that team in power, citizens are beginning to question how in every case the SPD uses lethal force it is always found to be justifiable.
to your point......the day the cops became 'political by taking over a political party' that favors a one party rule.......is theday that changed everything, including everyone's view of cops which are now all but admirable. Today, folks trust the cops just like they do politicians. And the cops brought this on themselves!
Who's watching the hen house??
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
now we pay the police to do 'mental health'.....holy crap.....sounds like Hitler to me......
we dont know what to do with folks like this nor do we have any kind of understanding.....the human brain is manipulated from THE OUTSIDE based upon outer responses.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
The respect of authority is by the wayside the police have dangerous jobs on a daily basis but
The police have reached their limit as to how to take charge of a situation they taser a 13 yr old shoot a mentally unstable person where is common sense and claim it is suicide by cop? the man needed help and so goes the training/negotiation for mental illness in this situation
today's world is dangerous but the most dangerous are still walking the streets do they keep watch on the sexual perps in the area? drug dealers,, gangs all over the area
Keep the cops out of the political arena
Officer, that is laughable. For one thing, being a cop isn't even in the top 25 of the most dangerous jobs. Wanna do something dangerous? Try being a construction worker, a farmer, or a miner.
I'm not saying the cops were wrong in this case, but a police issued taser shoots up to 35 feet, a civilian one, 15 feet. The fact that they let an unstable person get within 5 feet, screams incompetence.
They should have tazed him, at 10 feet, restrained him, and brought him back to the loony bin.
Earlier in this thread, "training in hand to hand combat" was mentioned. What a pathetic statement that was. It would be profoundly stupid to engage in hand to hand combat, unless it was by surprise, because at the end of your shift, you want to eat, tuck your kid into bed, and find what areas tickle your wife the most. If you don't train on a consistent basis, it's useless. I man a veterans' suicide hot line at 3 AM, so I'm pretty sure it's true.
I've heard some pretty horrific stories. Know what a LRP is?
"Hand to hand", that's a laugh. Half of them can't even see their feet.
Schenectady cops receive little, or no training. Notice it was the "rookie" (wait, 4 years on is a "rookie"?) that did the shooting?
and some folks I work with that moved to 'quiet' Schenectady laughed at the designation of CITY.....they call it the country.....all that was missing on the sidewalk was a cow for the car to crash into.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
"While Foreign Terrorists were plotting to murder and maim using homemade bombs in Boston, Democrap officials in Washington DC, Albany and here were busy watching ME and other law abiding American Citizens who are gun owners and taxpayers, in an effort to blame the nation's lack of security on US so that they could have a political scapegoat."
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