Quoted from Box A Rox

Where did I 'boot the family out of the situation?

If you consider that TEEN can mean 17,18 or 19 and liberated, living on their own with no contact from the family, or where a teen leaves the family because of drug abuse, crime or incest... Often with no health insurance, or access to birth control...
Isn't this the perfect example of a TEEN WHO NEEDS HELP?  Both help in preventing a pregnancy and help in health issues?

Family situations are not always what they should be in this country.  In a perfect situation, family would be first, as it should be.   What about situations where there IS NO FAMILY?

A recent study shows 80% of self described "evangelical" kids under 20 have premarital sex.  This isn't just a problem of the 'godless' or the poor.  20% of American women use PP services at some time in their life... often when they are the most vulnerable.
  Sex education, STD's Birth Control, Family Planning, Breast exams, Pap smear tests... All provided to women and men in need.  In my opinion, anyone who would deny these services to a person in need is the one being "mean".

Consider this:
~ 83 percent of PP clients receive services to prevent unintended pregnancy.
Isn't that a good thing?

~ Planned Parenthood services help prevent more than 612,000 unintended pregnancies each year.
Isn't that a good thing?

~Planned Parenthood provides nearly four million tests and treatments for sexually transmitted infections, including HIV.
Isn't that a good thing?

~Seventy-nine percent of Planned Parenthood health care clients in the U.S. are age 20 and older.
It's not just for "teens".

~Planned Parenthood often is the only source of family planning for a large proportion of the women we serve.
With out PP, there is no other provider.
  Denying women this services IMO is worse than 'mean'.

Quoted from PatZ

I don't believe I said that "you said" anything about booting the family out. However when our government takes control, they take control by removing the rights and ability of the family to be involved.
And you pointed out a problem with using the word "teen." Its my understanding that in the State of New York children 16 and under the age of 21 may leave their households, take up residence and be supported through the welfare system at their parents expense.
This is another serious flaw with our government.
Of course there are social problems too numerous to state and you touched on a very few examples but there is the other side of the coin to consider.
How many young/old women have been injured by Planned Parenthood? How many younger teens have been pushed into abortions that they were not agreeable to? How many older teens/women? Womens reproductive systems have been experimental at worst with PP being the impetus using low to no income women and girls as a resource.
Why I called you "mean" was due to your constant barraging of "conservatives." I am a conservative, not just fiscally as a lot of Democratic Party candidates now claim they are, but socially, ethically, and respectfully.
I believe firmly that life begins at conception and that the unborn has the right to live.
I do not believe in capital punishment, as our system has already proven that innocent people have been killed.
I am just as "compassionate" as the next guy who loves their family and appreciates the rights and freedoms bestowed upon us.
I watch CMT, FOX, CNN, MSNBC and I read the NY POST, NY TIMES, Washington Post as well as the Daily Gazette and the Albany Times Union.
And all the BEST TV shows begin with FOX.
I like Tea, preferably Green Tea although it has a high concentration of natural fluoride in it.
And Former President Bush, like former Mayor Stratton, is out of office. So the world keeps turning and people go on with their lives as it should be.
What I think would "help", maybe not much but who knows, is that our society must bring a kind of support to the family structure. It doesn't matter to me what that family is comprised of, it doesn't have to be father/mother/two-point-four children. But to support the family instead of ripping it apart.
That's what government control is doing. That's what we need to stop. We are NOT a Democracy. We are a Republic. We exist under a "Rule of Law", not a popular or mob rule as a "Democracy" exists by. What is unfortunate is that too many people don't understand this.

Quoted from Box A Rox

Pat Z,
An 'everything post'... lots to cover.

~  "However when our government takes control, they take control by removing the rights and ability of the family to be involved"
I agree that this can SOMETIMES be a problem, and sometimes it IS the problem.  When a teen is abused or even the victim of incest, the only salvation for that teen may be the state stepping for their own protection.  It is also  the responsibility of the state to protect those kids that need protection FROM their family.
     And that is done through “Child Protective Services” in the State of New York, an agency that is often maligned by Carl Strock & Company. Sometimes a problem? How do you know? What does “sometimes” mean to you? So its okay that “sometimes” the government takes your rights away? Or perhaps its okay to “you” that “sometimes” the government takes “other peoples’” rights away.

~ "Its my understanding that in the State of New York children 16 and under the age of 21 may leave their households, take up residence and be supported through the welfare system at their parents expense."
Again, for some kids, their salvation after leaving a drug addicted or abusive home.  Some kids at 16, and certainly at age 18-21, kids are no longer kids but young adults, and capable of being independent from their family and making their own decisions.
     This is one of the social problems that has no clear cut solutions. That is why we need a strong local community to at least give aid and comfort to children in dire need. You have injected a reason in your own mind for kids leaving their homes. Kids also leave because they don’t want to adhere to rules in the household and the STATE not only lets them, but charges the parents for the kids being self centered and spoiled.
In the State of New York all persons under the age of 21 are considered minors, a discussion that can be turned into circular reasoning. The point is is that Planned Parenthood performs abortions using taxpayer monies regardless. Conservatives such as I do not want my TAX DOLLARS going to pay for ABORTIONS. I am not saying that abortions cannot be performed. That atrocity is protected by LAW. I just don’t want MY TAX DOLLARS paying for it.

~ 1. "How many young/old women have been injured by Planned Parenthood?
2. How many younger teens have been pushed into abortions that they were not agreeable to.
3.  How many older teens/women? Womens reproductive systems have been experimental at worst with PP being the impetus using low to no income women and girls as a resource."
1. None that I know about. (other than what might be found in any hospital setting)
     Which relates directly to what you know about conservatives which is Nothing.

2. Again, we have no way of knowing, but....  How many young teens have been pushed into giving birth that they were not agreeable to?  My guess, a large number.
     So you think the high teen pregnancy rate in the City of Schenectady is simply a number of young teens being pushed into pregnancies they were not agreeable to? Its called a “welfare check.”

3. Medical malpractice is an issue in all hospital settings... other than that, PP doesn't experiment on it's clients any more than a hospital does.  
     You don’t think so? Apparently you have no idea about the experimentation of birth control methods used by females. Think it isn’t so? Obviously you must be male then, as were most doctors in the field beginning in the 1970’s. And think about what it means to have a third trimester abortion. Even liberal minded people would be horrified and disgusted.

~ "Why I called you "mean" was due to your constant barraging of "conservatives."
So a 'constant barraging of "liberals" is acceptable???  Just read random posts on this board.  You'll hear your definition of "mean" constantly used against the opposing view.
In this context, IMO, depriving women of health services to promote a political agenda is nothing but MEAN.  
     Who constantly barrages liberals? The idea of our society, our communities and our lives is not black and white [oops, I may be considered racist for saying that]. Conservatives and Liberals alike are terms of idealism, not stereotyping. I have little time to read random posts on this board as I have to go to work to earn the money to pay the taxes that are charged by our federal, state and local governments in order to provide all the services to all the individuals who they THINK need to have, when all it really does if give a whole bunch of other people a paycheck and drain our country’s financial resources under the guise of democracy. Overbloated government at its finest.

~ " I am a conservative, not just fiscally as a lot of Democratic Party candidates now claim they are, but socially, ethically, and respectfully.
1. I believe firmly that life begins at conception and that the unborn has the right to live.
2. I do not believe in capital punishment, as our system has already proven that innocent people have been killed.
3. I am just as "compassionate" as the next guy who loves their family and appreciates the rights and freedoms bestowed upon us.
1. Of course 'life' begins at conception.  But that life IMO, is not a human being and won't be until several months have passed.  This is the basic difference between our positions.
     So I suppose you think that life is alien? That it should be extracted and killed for what? No life starts out as being able to survive before its birth, yet it is still life. There are tree people out there that chain themselves to trees and equipment to prevent deforestation. That’s okay yet its not okay for abortion protesters to picket or pray?
I would not force a woman to have an abortion who feels the way you do.  That is her right.
     Your use of the word “force” is strange and weird.
I wold not force a woman to complete a pregnancy who feels the way I do.  That is her right.
     Again, your use of the word “force” is strange and weird.
2. We agree.
     Big deal.
3. I find a total lack of 'compassion' on the part of Conservatives on this issue.  IF you are anti abortion, then work to change that with legislation.  But a direct effect of the Conservative push to end abortion has been the destruction of HEALTH SERVICES for women.  Compassionate??? What do conservatives offer to a woman who has no birth control because THEY shut down her only access to affordable health services.  Do Conservatives offer an alternative health care service (minus abortion)?  NO.  This political agenda may or may not end abortion for these women, but it definitely takes away their access to health care... Pap smears, Breast exams, Birth control, STD & AIDS testing and treatment...  Fight abortion if you must, but the Conservative agenda that ends abortion also ends health care for these women.  Hardly compassionate!
     Ending TAXPAYER FUNDING of abortion is not going affect HEALTH SERVICES for women. Conservatives DO NOT have to offer alternative health care service minus abortion, that’s a silly statement. If Planned Parenthood wants to exist, they can still get public funding for women’s health care services. Its called Medicaid and they already get that.

~ "And all the BEST TV shows begin with FOX."
Your option, of course.  I find Fox to be laughable, but what you watch for 'news' is your choice.  Some Americans prefer to get their news from the National Enquirer... again, their choice.
     I happen to like House and COPS. I could care less what you find to be laughable. FOX stations carried the NASCAR races for many years. As far as “news” I watch every station and often I find that FOX will present news that the others won’t. Kind of like the Daily Gazette. I find the Times Union much more fair and balanced and that newspaper is also considered to be “liberal.”

~ "And Former President Bush, like former Mayor Stratton, is out of office."
So true!  I remember the early Bush years, the joke was "ABC"... Always Blame Clinton.   It's too bad you didn't offer your views when the ABC rule was a daily occurrence.  
Fortunately, GWB is GONE. Unfortunately, America is forced to live with is legacy.
     And if you’re local to Schenectady, for eight years we had Stratton blaming Jurczynski for everything. Get over it.

~ "What I think would "help", maybe not much but who knows, is that our society must bring a kind of support to the family structure. It doesn't matter to me what that family is comprised of, it doesn't have to be father/mother/two-point-four children. But to support the family instead of ripping it apart.
That's what government control is doing. That's what we need to stop. We are NOT a Democracy. We are a Republic. We exist under a "Rule of Law", not a popular or mob rule as a "Democracy" exists by. What is unfortunate is that too many people don't understand this.
Mostly we agree.
     Oh yeah? So what. Who cares. Conservatives and Liberals? No one cares.


Sorry that this post is so long, because you offered a variety of subjects in one post.   There was no way to offer a response except all together.
     My post wasn’t meant to elicit any offering of a response from you. However since you did I want you to know that I read it. I believe you put some thought time into it, but until everyone starts to look beyond the words Conservative and Liberal, and examines the ideas of strong families and cohesive societies, nothing will change.