The Bible also says that God knew you before you were in your mother's womb and "thou shall not kill" -- so I would take that as the Bible upholding the sanctity of human life from its earliest point to its natural end.
for yourself personally....you're sure not including everyone else in your vaginal choices, I'm sure.
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Ronny, if you'd like to get into a Theological debate on what's correct and what isn't, I'll gladly discuss it with you at any time. It is a challenge having a battle of whit and knowledge with an unarmed person, but I'll gladly spot you a few just to make it an even playing field. You never know, you might just learn something, as may I.
This isn't the forum for a debate - so this will be the last comment I make on this thread. I will not however back down in my defense of the Catholic Church, Her teachings or Canon laws - so if you insist on debating this, you know where to find me.
DVR--I got to tell you--I wouldn't start debating with MT re: church issues and /or theological oones. Because although I often don't agree with him on his stance, he is masterful and KNOWS his stuff. People like you and me tweak it so it is more palatable. And he is a deeply religious and commited Catholic whose faith does not fail him. I agree with your thinking, and btw the Bishop didn't say it was between Cuomo and G-d--I did. Hubbard said he would have to know much more about that history before denying the man communion. So you haven't got that straight. And I say give him communion. But MT's stance is more than solid. You're a Siena grad--give it up/.
In defense of Cuomo again--he cannot win in this situation. He should get a church annulment and then move on to marriage if that is what he wants.
Why do we care....he's not a leader of the church......he's a SECULAR ELECTED PUBLIC OFFICIAL.....if I'm not mistaken this was already taken care of in the bible via the pharisee and saduces and the view of them by Jesus......
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
No not all. Just trying to put via our political leader, a human face on a subject and issue that has aused so many to leave the sacraments and the church. My own brother is divorced and now stopped going to Mass because he remarried. He has been remarried almost 25 years. But he cried the day his children made First Communion because he couldn't go to the altar rail.
WE don't need a new church, we need to look at Christian faith and begin to act as one. That is why I am strong supporter of the Baptismal Witness Program.
Although I am no longer a practicing catholic, I respect their human governmental rules.
But I do think they were completely out of line, bringing up the fact that cuomo is living with someone, living in sin and still receiving communion. People knew that and still elected him. And I'm sure many of those supporting him were catholics.
I'd have to believe that he has been receiving communion BEFORE he became governor while living with the cook lady. Why wasn't that an issue then?
I'm just questioning the timing here and just sayin'.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Cuomo's religion or lack thereof is no one's business but his own. If his religion is an issue with you then don't vote for him.
If you think that Cuomo should be excommunicated, then write the bishop or the pope, but that issue has no bearing on his performance as governor of NY.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
I went to Catholic schools for 12 years, and all my teachers' views on religion, varied wildly. "One nation under God" Who's idea of God, yours, mine? If you go to a convent, you will not even see 2 sisters, that the same exact beliefs, and which god are we reffering to? Buddha, Allah, Jesus? There are a metric ton of "Gods", that different people believe in.
I gave up Catholicism for lent, because it was just getting too ridiculous. Noah's ark? If you believe that it happened in it's literal form, then as a theology teacher of mine once said, "you lack critical reasoning". Does anyone seriously think that penguins swam to Africa, marched through the desert, along with a few thousand different breeds of animals, that mostly survive by eating each other, because they had reservations on Noah's Cruise lines? That many animals, and millions of different insect breeds, wouldn't fit on an AIRCRAFT CARRIER.
It's a PARABLE you goof.
There is no way, that Christ looked anything like Ted Nugent, because as all of the people in that area were, he was very dark, and about 5' tall, as was his mother. Nor was he poor. There is no mention of that in the bible, in fact, he was given gold at birth, and his father had a very marketable trade. That whole myth of his mage, is a product of the Itallian Rennaisance, because there was never a single drawing of him.
The manger? Yeah, sure thing. Mom and dad, came in riding on a donkey. Poor people, would have EATEN the donkey, and when it comes to the animals keeping him warm with their breath, yeah, it dips down to a grand 80 degrees at night, in that part of the world.
The first book of the bible, wasn't written until 70 years after he died, and was re-written by monks in the 10th century, to suit their needs. Ever heard of the game "telephone"? It's kind of like that.
They left out "The Book Of Mary", and maybe it's just me, but I think his mom would have had some pretty interesting stuff to say about the whole thing.
What happened to "limbo"? Did those people go up, did they go down?
Who knows, especially considering that the reason that priests aren't allowed to marry, is because way back when that rule was put in place, the literacy rate was about 10%, and if you even knew how to read (no public schools) it meant you were a child of privledge, stood to inherit some money, and the church didn't want it to go to anyone else, but them.
Hey, hows about that pope? Intentionally reenlisting In hitler's youth, and before you go on with , the "Nuremberg defense" of "hey, I was doing what I was told', it doesn't work when you're supposedly God's representative on this planet.
I gave up Catholicism for lent, because it was just getting too ridiculous.
I too did the same. Raised Catholic, went to Catholic school. Then I realized that Catholicism was yet another 'human' version of Christianity. So many man made rules and so many inconsistencies. Catholicism was used centuries ago to control the masses via through the government. It continues today.
But hey Tommy.......don't label ALL Christians as Catholic.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
BT--it wasn't an issue before because no one was following him to Mass.
If you're referring to me, then you're sadly mistaken. Grammar school in NYC ? They used to quiz us on what was said at mass, and we were issued donation envelopes. If yours wasn't there, they wanted to know why.
Upstate, it was not all that dissimilar, but is was more like "be there, or be square", and it seemed that I spent 7 days a week there, between school, church, and basketball or play practice.
No one followed me to mass? Lets get all nostalgic and all, and I'll tell you about the days when parents felt a sense of responsibility for their children's upbringing, and education. They made damned sure that I got there.
Changing values Cuomo’s relationship with girlfriend makes his election historic BY DANIEL T. WEAVER For The Sunday Gazette
I was going to point out several months ago the historic aspect of Andrew Cuomo’s governorship, i.e., the fi rst governor of New York state to live openly with a woman without the benefi t of marriage. But the ho-hum reaction of most of the media and the public to Cuomo’s relationship with Sandra Lee seemed to indicate that pointing out the historic nature of his governorship was pointless. But now that Roman Catholic legal scholar and Vatican adviser Edward Peters has said that the church should deny Cuomo Communion because he is defying church dogma by living in “public concubinage” with Ms. Lee, it might be worthwhile to say a few things. Numerous people have already stated that Peters is a hypocrite for publicly exposing the governor’s sin when the Catholic Church has been complicit in covering up for priests who rape boys and girls. I’ve lived long enough to realize that if there is one sin common to all of humanity, it’s hypocrisy, and the only way a person can completely avoid the charge is to have no values at all. Pointing out hypocrisy is a schoolyard game. It is entertaining, but it does not provide an intellectual basis for challenging someone’s ideas. Furthermore, some of the most dangerous people in the world are so consistent that it is difficult to accuse them of hypocrisy (e.g. Muslim terrorists). CANON LAW IS CLEAR I am not a Catholic. I have spent most of my life, however, studying religion, and while I fi nd many aspects of Catholicism attractive, I fi nd others repugnant. Having said that, it seems to me that Mr. Peters has a point. I don’t know how you can read Catholic theology, canon law, catechisms, etc., and say that Mr. Cuomo’s current relationship is anything but antithetical to Catholicism. However, we live in a democracy, or a representative republic for those who want to quibble about words, and we all expect every aspect of our lives to be democratic, including our religion. But it’s just not so. Schools, places of employments, families, churches and various other organizations are rarely democracies. Few churches are more hierarchical and undemocratic than the Roman Catholic Church. Nevertheless, many Catholics seem to think that they can believe and do whatever they want and still remain a Catholic in good standing. If the governor wants to do whatever he feels like or believe anything he wants to believe, then one obvious solution is to join a more democratic and less dogmatic church, like the Unitarian-Universalist Society, although even that church is not completely free of dogma and authoritarianism. Another solution is to go to Jerusalem, get crucified and start his own religion. ....................>>>>...............>>>>...................http://www.dailygazette.net/De.....r02900&AppName=1
Sorry Tommy that was not meant for you at all. My point was none of this was an issue for Cuoma before because nobaody was following him to Mass with cameras. My whole life was and still is centered around Mass (several times a week) several commissions of the diocese and sering as liturgy coordinator for St. Vincent's as well as doing a Communion service for VI apartments for seniors. My life too centers around the church. But still, who really cares if he goes to communion or if he doesn't. Better he should go than not. Hubbard's response was on target.
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