Quoted from 55tbird

First of all, I didn't put it up on the internet..don't bash the messenger, so you can stick it. If you can categorically exonerate EVERY ONE on that list, I'd love to hear it....BUT YOU AND I KNOW YOU CAN'T!!!
You can deny the catholic church hierarchy does not have issues all you want, but you'd lying to yourself.
As far as the Christian thing, you can be a good Christian and not listen to the Catholic church, in fact, that's how MOST Christians in this country do it. SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE CHRIST CREATED THE POSITION OF POPE AND THE HIERARCHY OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.. I'll be waiting.
To me, the Catholic church is nothing more than a corporation.

A corporation? Perhaps.
However the catholic church has also embedded itself into the secular government under the guise of 'little white collars,habits' and crucifixes. The lies and the corruption that comes out of the catholic church (if it's not swept under the rug) is not what bothers me most as all religions have their own sins. What REALLY bothers me is how the 'flock' defends the corruption, again, under the guise of 'compassion'.
Like Jesus said....'bless them father they know not what they do'!

The fact is no one is perfect ... we all have sinned and fallen short in the eyes of God.

Quoted from 612

BUT he is my Pope and we believe him to be infallible.  Hubbard is my Bishop and although he an I have had our differences, he remains my Bishop.

One correction - The Holy Father is "infallible only on matters of faith and morals" when he promulgates to the Church a dogmatic teach on faith as being from divine revelation.  The dogma does not state that the Pope can not sin in his personal life, or even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the context of a specific revelation / dogma. Interesting note, the last time an "infallible statement" was made was 1950 when Pope Pius XII defined the Assumption of Mary as being an article of faith for Catholics.

A Bishop has no such "immunity", or ability to interpret "divine revelation".

Christ our Lord will judge Howard when his time here is over. Civil trials, tho not all have been completed or investigated, may provide loopholes for him to squirm through - but ultimately, he'll pay for his actions - as will we all.

http://64.132.212.43/imate/propdetail.aspx?swis=422800&printkey=03801800010320000000

Hmmm, look at the owner, what it was bought for and the exemptions, just found this interesting.


http://www.rotterdamassessments.com/subject.asp?swis=422800&sbl=03801800010320000000

And here's if you want to see a picture also.

Now is this who I think it is?  Just wondering as I thought priests lived in the rectory? And how does someone get a clergy exemption for a home property?


http://landrecords.schenectady.....;maximumMatches=1000

Scroll down to the 16th item regarding Urban and Amedore, notice it is written not to be published !!!!

Also other properites in his name, why are they not left to the church?

Quoted from 147

One correction - The Holy Father is "infallible only on matters of faith and morals" when he promulgates to the Church a dogmatic teach on faith as being from divine revelation.  The dogma does not state that the Pope cannot sin in his personal life, or even when speaking in his official capacity, outside the context of a specific revelation / dogma.

First.....is the pope the ONLY human being that can get a divine revelation from God?

Second....if the pope can sin in his personal life...what makes him any different, in the eyes of God, than any other human being.

rpforpres - if you want a real shocker, look up property deeds in Florida, specifically coastal south florida (both sides).  There's a LOT of Albany names down there.

Quoted from rpforpres

http://64.132.212.43/imate/propdetail.aspx?swis=422800&printkey=03801800010320000000

Hmmm, look at the owner, what it was bought for and the exemptions, just found this interesting.


http://www.rotterdamassessments.com/subject.asp?swis=422800&sbl=03801800010320000000

And here's if you want to see a picture also.

Now is this who I think it is?  Just wondering as I thought priests lived in the rectory? And how does someone get a clergy exemption for a home property?


http://landrecords.schenectady.....;maximumMatches=1000

Scroll down to the 16th item regarding Urban and Amedore, notice it is written not to be published !!!!

Also other properites in his name, why are they not left to the church?

A priest can own property and it is no secret that he owns a property in Rotterdam that he purchased for
use during his retirement.  Since a priest is responsible to provide for himself in retirement, it is entirely
appropriate that he purchased a home to live in.    As far as leaving one's estate to the church,  he is still
very much alive -- and furthermore it is his personal business and not yours as to whom he leaves his
estate to.

The "other properties" are in the names of OTHER PEOPLE with the same last name .. but NOT the same
person.

Your attempts to personally attack this fine priest are deplorable.

Quoted from bumblethru

First.....is the pope the ONLY human being that can get a divine revelation from God?

Second....if the pope can sin in his personal life...what makes him any different, in the eyes of God, than any other human being.

One does not have to be perfect to be head of the Church  .. none of the denominations have perfect
leaders,   The Pope is recognized by MOST Christians and Many non-Christians as the spiritual leader
of Christians and others.   Catholics recognize the Pope as Christ's representative or vicar here on earth.

If you don't recognize the Pope as such -- that doesn't diminish our belief or respect for both the office and
the person holding the office.

DV you misunderstand. I was not talking about his estate, but someone else who left a house to HIM in their estate. Now if you go to the Catholic Diocese website when people make a gift of their home to the church it goes to the diocese not the priest.

And I did not say all those listings pertained to him, notice I said to scroll down to a certain one (and then there is the other one where he was left an estate also.)

What I found sorta interesting was the very expensive condo purchased for one dollar. And the words on page 2 written boldly NOT to be published. Why would someone not want a purchase of a condo made public when all purchases of homes are public knowledge on the Sch'dy county website?

And I am not attacking this person with false accusations, just speaking the truth. What I know about him is deplorable. Like when he went to buy a head stone for a priest some years back, and asked the owner of the memorial company to give him a bill for double the cost to give to the lawyer so he could pocket the difference. Now is that what a man of the cloth should be doing, I think not.

I just find it so sad that parishioners are kept in the dark about such things, when they give there 10 percent every week.

And its so sad that many are not comfortable attending St. Adalberts because they do have knowledge of misdeeds over the years.

I would have loved to have had my three children baptized at St. Adalberts as i stated before it was our family church for many years.

But I thank God that I found Father Kostek who had left St. Adalberts to go to St. Lukes and he baptized my kids and two of them made their first communion there.

I am a sinner, God knows that. But when a man of the cloth preaches to people how to live their lives using the word of God and then goes and breaks the very commandments he speaks of, that to me is a sin against the very parishioners who are in his "flock".

And if i sound bitter against him I am for hurting my mother so. If he could do that to her, he could do that to many. : (

May God forgive me for not being able to forgive this man, but sometimes hurt does not go away.

Quoted from rpforpres

DV you misunderstand. I was not talking about his estate, but someone else who left a house to HIM in their estate. Now if you go to the Catholic Diocese website when people make a gift of their home to the church it goes to the diocese not the priest.

And I did not say all those listings pertained to him, notice I said to scroll down to a certain one (and then there is the other one where he was left an estate also.)

What I found sorta interesting was the very expensive condo purchased for one dollar. And the words on page 2 written boldly NOT to be published. Why would someone not want a purchase of a condo made public when all purchases of homes are public knowledge on the Sch'dy county website?

And I am not attacking this person with false accusations, just speaking the truth. What I know about him is deplorable. Like when he went to buy a head stone for a priest some years back, and asked the owner of the memorial company to give him a bill for double the cost to give to the lawyer so he could pocket the difference. Now is that what a man of the cloth should be doing, I think not.

I just find it so sad that parishioners are kept in the dark about such things, when they give there 10 percent every week.

And its so sad that many are not comfortable attending St. Adalberts because they do have knowledge of misdeeds over the years.

I would have loved to have had my three children baptized at St. Adalberts as i stated before it was our family church for many years.

But I thank God that I found Father Kostek who had left St. Adalberts to go to St. Lukes and he baptized my kids and two of them made their first communion there.

I am a sinner, God knows that. But when a man of the cloth preaches to people how to live their lives using the word of God and then goes and breaks the very commandments he speaks of, that to me is a sin against the very parishioners who are in his "flock".

And if i sound bitter against him I am for hurting my mother so. If he could do that to her, he could do that to many. : (

May God forgive me for not being able to forgive this man, but sometimes hurt does not go away.

People can choose to leave property to a priest or any other person.     Many priests have been left something from the estates of other people -- including the other priest you mentioned that you seem to like so
much.

It was never a secret that he purchased the property in Rotterdam.   He was preparing for his eventual
retirement and he did what MANY priests do  --- purchase a property to live in after retirement.  

As for your other accusations,  I don't respond to hearsay accusations like these.

I will keep to myself what I know about the other priest whom you think is so perfect.  

Finally,  I don't believe it is appropriate for you and the others to be dragging the good name of the bishop
and priests through the mud on these pages.     The fact that you and the others do ---   in my mind ---
diminishes any credibility that you have.    I am convinced that the devil is at work in you and others in
an attempt to undermine Christ's Church.

Quoted Text

I am convinced that the devil is at work in you and others in
an attempt to undermine Christ's Church.

As you are Catholic you would know that the devil is always in our midst.

And I am not undermining Christ's Church, the priests who molested children did that for many years.
And the higher ups who tried to cover it up.
And all of the money taken from parishioners to pay for their misdeeds. When money given to the church is supposed to be used for upkeep of the church and its mission of helping people with the Word of God and those who are in need.

And again as you are also Catholic you know that NO man is without sin, including all priests and bishops.

Its just that some sin ALOT more than others. Its when those sins continue and are allowed to continue and it hurts the church's people....

DV I guess we are in the same boat. You feel deeply for your priest and I loved Father Kostek. And yes all are sinners. But the difference between you and me is you seem to put your priest and bishop on a pedestal, when they are just men and should not be considered "better" than us.

For the church for US, and our relationship and love of God and Jesus. That is what is really important. So this time I have to keep my word with no more talk of a certain someone.

There are many priests that have had affairs with other wo/men, have actually fathered children while being a 'man of the cloth' and countless other travesties that go against the catholic ideology. This happens in ALL religions. I'm not singling out catholics, it just happens to be the topic of this thread. In agreement...these men/women are natural born sinners like all humans.

The point is....everyone has 'true stories' to be told. Brushing them under the rug and abandoning the truth is a hypocrisy and just diminishes the religion.

The men and women of the catholic church, that can NOT uphold their vows, should be allowed to continue their chosen behavior.......But they should leave the church vocation to do so. Allowing them to continue and hide under the blanket of Catholicism, just lowers the bar and again diminishes the religion as a whole. IMHO

Diocesan priests do not take "vows" of poverty. (Canon Law 281).  Only "order priests" take vows of poverty, and then, not all orders have the same vows.

It's not against the church for him to own a house, a car - but it should be done humbly.

MT is correct.  Secular priests are not bound by the vows of poverty.  BT--you are so righteous.  Scares me to be you.

If a priest is left anything, house, car condo they can keep it.  It's theirs.  Not true for nuns or brothers and some ordered priests.

How do you look up property deeds in Florida?  

It is what it is and the facts are the facts. Can't hide behind a cloak of black.

55 hit it right on the head......the catholic church is nothing more than a government corporation with layers and layers of bureaucracy!!

Continue with your 'man made' rosaries, novenas, candle lighting, bingo games and festas, (been there-done it) while I continue to have a personal relationship with God/Jesus Christ without the middle man and perhaps we'll continue this discussion on the 'other side' of life.