Quoted Text

Schenectady’s ‘curb tax’ may be the last straw

    Re Oct. 11 article, “Curb fee cost still being calculated”: Every day I try to come up with reasons why I should stay in Schenectady. With the new “curb tax,” I’m running out of reasons.
    With our salaries going down and many losing their jobs in this terrible economy, I wish I could just raise taxes or vote myself a raise when I needed money, but I can’t. The government shouldn’t be able to, either.
    We all have to make sacrifi ces during these times; why can’t the mayor and city council be responsible and do the same? Try cutting spending, like all of us hardworking citizens have to do. Maybe if you show fiscal responsibility, people and businesses would want to relocate here.

    JOHN GRASSO
    Schenectady

http://www.dailygazette.net/De.....r00706&AppName=1

The problem with the "curb tax"  --- besides being a new tax --- is that it is short-sighted and will
cause MORE problems than it solves.    For years - churches, hospitals, and other similar non-profits
provided an array of services that were needed and/or wanted by the community.  They helped to
enhance or build-up the community.
As an example, one of the first groups formed when Saint Adalbert's church was founded was the
Altar-Rosary Society -- which promoted prayer and helped clean the sanctuary and take care of the
altar  --- but for many years one of its offshoots was the Ladies' Aid Society.   These women would
hear about a person and/or family in need -- lets say the mother was very sick and needed help
fixing meals, caring for the children, and cleaning house.   The Ladies' Aid Society stepped in and helpedout.    Other groups - like Saint Vincent de Paul Society existed to help the poor and unemployed.  
Every faith community in the city  Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, or you name it  has similar service groups ..  they ACT as community in the truest sense ... see a person or persons in need -- lets work together to help fill the need.   There was no reason to then to create a GOVERNMENT entity to solve the problem .. the COMMUNITY through its churches and similar non-profits came together and solved the problem.

Was the financial burden great for the churches and similar non-profits?   At times yes.  Did the
churches and similar non-profits send an invoice or billing statement to the city government for
services rendered?    No -- because it the churches and similar non-profits were acting as a part
of COMMUNITY.

With all the difficulties confronting churches and similar non-profits, being sent a NEW problem --
a curb tax bill -- may do one of two things --- it will force these churches and similar non-profits to
divert some resources away from  the services it provides to the community   or  it may very well
force some of these churches or similar non-profits to go away completely.   Leaving the GOVERNMENT
to have to provide additional services .. and incurring additional expenses.

Bottomline -- my opinion -- the curb tax is a horrible idea for churches and similar non-profits.  It will
just serve to hurt or destroy the last few of these institutions remaining in the city.  The curb tax will
further erode the sense of  COMMUNITY which is so essential to us living together.   In the long run,
the curb tax will do MORE damage to the city as a whole .. and once the churches and similar
non-profits are gone -- it will be difficult to replace them.

Great letter from Mr. Grasso but the last straw occurred when the 2 party system imploded in the City. One party DEM rule, where the REPS can't win even City Court killed the City. Cuts only apply to the public sector. Mayor SOS actually had the nerve, the gall, the brass, the chutzpah to INCREASE his travel slush fund $30,000 while keeping his JEEP. The curb tax is an attempt to get the fat cat nonprofits to pay something for City services. Because Union, Ellis and Proctor's pay nothing all churches, temples and mosque need to pony up.

     If you oppose the curb tax please forward your solutions to close the DEMS $13 million deficit. Crickets chirping, dead silence, mumbo jumbo about the Duci years (when the City budget was balanced and we didn't have 36 lobs riding around town in City vehicles). The DEMS are like the band members on the Titanic. And the band played on.

the not-for-profits need to pony up.....and by this I mean the churches......we are reaping what was sown in the 60's/70's/80's of the moving away
and the itching ears syndrome....a whole generation has left 'the building'.......there is a gap and they put it there......no one else did.....

they dont need to pay a curb tax......their leaders have lost their sheep.....THAT is how personal it is and why government isn't good at this kind of
crap......

oh, they'll collect the fee/tax....but we all know what happens then.....it goes to the 'government church' called UNION......then you're F'D....never
again to get that leech off......

I would distinguish between the churches and similar non-profits ... and non-profits like
Union College, Ellis Hospital and,even, Proctor's.      The last three should pay some type of curb fee
because they DO use a lot of city services.

Churches don't use a lot of city services ... and what few they use are more than balanced off by the
services that we provide the city.  

Just as an aside, a few years back when Mayor Stratton first took office .. our church sent a "donation"
to the city -- when the mayor was appealing for help dealing with the financial crisis that he had
inherited.     I also know that for years our parish has mowed and cleaned a piece of city property that
borders our parish property   -- we never sent the city a bill for that nor would we think of doing it.
It is called being a good neighbor.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

The problem with the "curb tax"  ...  Did the churches and similar non-profits send an invoice or billing statement to the city government for services rendered?    No .

Well I'll be darn.  I can't believe I agree with something DV says!   Some of it anyway.  In my opinion there are non-profits and there are non-profits.  

You've got hospitals, now, I can't speak for Ellis or Sunnyview in terms of their policy.  But when St. Clare's was around, it was well known that it would provide service to those who couldn't pay.  And I'm not talking those eligible for medicaid, but rather those, typical Schenectady households with their income of $30,000 make too much to be eligible for medicaid, but their employer doesn't provide insurance, such a person would go to St. Clares and could potentially get their care and be discharged with a "bill" of $100,000 that they will never pay, or maybe pay only a small portion of it.

Then there is Proctor's theater, come on now, $1 more on each ticket sold would probably more than cover what their curb fee would be --- and really there is no reason why Proctors should be a non-profit.    SLOC is an nfp which again, they can raise the price of a ticket.

Churches, well, that's a difficult one.  There is St. John's, a large parish with lots of well-heeled parishoners.   Or you have that Calvary Tabernacle near the crosstown which had the $2 million to expand and they are still trying to buy peoples houses, they can well afford a curb fee.   THen some chuches, Catholic or not, may be congregations of maybe just 100 people, mostly elderly on a fixed income, and perhaps even their minister is living on foot stamps.  

Then there is MVP, which is a not-for-profit health insurance, they could include the curb fee as justification for reqesting the state allow them to raise rates.  And if it's really a financial burden, I'm sure they could have their high level staff take a pay cut.

Then there are the nfp's whose primary purpose is to provide services for people via getting taxpayer handouts for their customers/clients, and look to the government for handouts for their own operating expenses.  By the same token, many of these may be located in rented taxable space---I'm not sure how a building is taxed when it's owned by some private person and the property would otherwise be taxable, but then it's rented to an nfp.

It almost seems like it would be proper to charge them a fee on a case by case basis, HOWEVER, that couldn't easily be done.  Well, maybe.  Such as if they provide a service to people they would be exempt, like medical or the churches which really do something (and I'm not talking about visiting the homebound or making quilts for the elderly).  Then, something like Proctors does not provide a vital service to people, but rather they put on shows for people to go to for enjoyment---no difference than any for-profit theater.    I'm sure any of these methods would require changes in state law, and that won't come to soon.

The bottom line, the solution to the budget is to start taxing the for-profits who are currently exempt, no more exemptions for all these businesses, the taxpayers CANNOT AFFORD to pay the taxes for the well-heeled downtown businesses, their developers, owners, whatever.  And the other solution, is to make more intelligent cuts, instead of cutting crime which is incredibly high right now, do cut out those city vehicles.

St. John the Evangelist provides space in its old convent for Catholic Charities which provides - just
guessing --  at least 10's of thousands of dollars in social services to city residents.

As for its parishioners being 'well-heeled", that is true to an extent but the parish isn't rolling around
in cash.   It pretty much raises just enough to keep the lights on and provide the various spiritual
and social services that it provides.    

Proctors is not a not-for-profit. They do several for profit ventures such as conventions and power plants to mask the financial failure of Morris and his disciples on the board. This info should be public information.

Quoted Text

Curb the curb tax
Marv Cermak

Some Schenectady residents already boiling over the proposed phony curb tax are even more worked up about destruction of perfectly good sidewalks and curbs at the Heritage Postal Station.

About 150 feet of sidewalk and curbs on one side of the facility were ripped up last week at the end a three-block-long city improvement project. Residents conceded two of the blocks contained some badly deteriorated walkways, but the postal block was flawless.

Several neighbors I spoke with said they asked construction workers why city funds were being wasted. They were told the postal block was just part of the larger project.

At first, the people thought the work was necessary to repair natural gas lines. Nope. Just another example of why dysfunctional government is causing near-confiscatory taxation.

By the way, the curb tax is phony because it's a dodge. It avoids proposing a double-digit tax jack that might wake up the long meek and slumbering property owners. The curb tax allegedly will pay for street maintenance.

City officials argue that the curb tax brings equity because it hits the property tax-exempt agencies. Forget that hot air. Property owners paying for street maintenance for decades, will now be billed twice for the same service. The nonprofits will be paying for the service once.....................>>>>....................>>>>..................http://www.timesunion.com/default/article/Candidates-hesitant-to-mention-unions-712345.php#page-1

Quoted from 615

Proctors is not a not-for-profit. They do several for profit ventures such as conventions and power plants to mask the financial failure of Morris and his disciples on the board. This info should be public information.

I believe that technically they are a not-for-profit  .. 501-c-3.     Not all non-profits are equal ... that
was my point.  

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

I believe that technically they are a not-for-profit  .. 501-c-3.     Not all non-profits are equal ... that
was my point.  

Right but here's the rub they REFUSE to list the pay of Mercury Morris or other fat cats living large on the arts gravy train. This curb tax is being imposed because Union, Ellis and Proctor's refuse to pay their fair share. Now every church. temple, mosque, City Mission, Catholic Charities will suffer. Union College has many fire/police calls and can certainly afford $1 million a year for vital fire/police services.

Quoted from benny salami

Right but here's the rub they REFUSE to list the pay of Mercury Morris or other fat cats living large on the arts gravy train. This curb tax is being imposed because Union, Ellis and Proctor's refuse to pay their fair share. Now every church. temple, mosque, City Mission, Catholic Charities will suffer. Union College has many fire/police calls and can certainly afford $1 million a year for vital fire/police services.

I don't disagree with your assessment of the situation.


Just by their size and the nature of their operations,  the three (union, ellis, and proctor's) require a lot
of city services.
A church doesn't use much in city services --- we pay for the water we use, we pay to have our
garbage hauled by a private concern,  we pay a private concern to plow our parking lot and driveway
(honestly -- quite often the city street leading to the parking lot is NOT plowed for a day or 2 but our
parking lot is lowed right down to the black top within hours of the snowfall).
And -- as much as I respect our police -- I do know of several incidents where it literally took hours
for them to respond to calls at our parish.    

Quoted from 615

Proctors is not a not-for-profit. They do several for profit ventures such as conventions and power plants to mask the financial failure of Morris and his disciples on the board. This info should be public information.

EXACTLY!!!! Now just 'try' to get the info public!

Quoted from benny salami

     Forget about dying Rochester. Look to the South to see what they are doing right. The curb tax is DOA. Start clearing out the dead wood in City Hall. Mayor SOS is finished and can forget about a third term. 8 years is too much. Other doubling dipping clapping seals on the useless City Council should be setting retirement plans. Get out and let REP/CONS business people replace you.

     Instead of slamming every Church in the City work out a PILOT with fat cats Union, Ellis and Proctor's. Because Mayor SOS was afraid of Union College every parish will now get slammed. Totally unacceptable. This will only mean more closures. Some "renaissance"?

The curb tax is kaput!. Bravo to everyone here who correctly slammed this idiotic Stratton proposal. It had no support. Keep listing cuts as we are being read. Eliminate the Deputy Mayor, golf "pro", Department of Development, SNAP, Public Safety Commissioner, 34 City cars, all cellphones, 3 City pools, all nonprofit giveaways. No fire fighters will be laid off. Another victory lap!

kaput? Did that get withdrawn from the budget proposal?