And the city said the fire was accidental (from a cigarette, incense, or a candle) And the city said it started in 104 Jay St And apparently there is no one else unaccounted for.
And because it is documented that the city code people inspected the building about 12 hours before the fire started (give or take an hour)
Why is the mayor being so secretive about stating the results of the code inspection, why alarms didn't work, why is the mayor being so secretive about why the code people did not declare the building uninhabitable until the owner makes the necessary repairs, and why is the mayor refusing to state whether these two properties had insurance on them which would name the city as a certificate holder?
Remember, the mayor's words were that nothing would be said because there was a potential criminal investigation. It has been ruled that it was NOT a criminal action.
So why is the mayor being so secretive? Why won't the DA say anything? Taxpayers have birthright entitlement to know the answers.
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
i'm sure they KNOW. like I said before....the folks who live/work in that area....STILL say it was a meth lab. just sayin'
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Where does it say that the investigation is over? I don't recall reading or hearing that the investigation is closed.
That's what is questionable. True, no one actually used those words. But what would they be investigating? I know that they aren't sure if it was a cigarette or incense or candle, but suppose it was a cigarette, would they still be investigating whether the guy fell asleep with a lit cigarette in an ashtray or the guy got up to go to the bathroom and left a cigarette in an ashtray. I can't be sure but I can't imagine any investigators coming up with an answer to that.
I know bumble was is referencing a meth lab that others have referenced. Are we to expect that 6 months from now the city is going to make an announcement that they lied about the cause of the fire, but that a grand jury has just indicted two people in the building for operating a meth lab and that's the real cause of the fire? I couldn't imagine city leaders giving one story today knowing that they may change it later. I guess it's possible, just not likely.
But on the other hand, is the "investigation" that continues the part that answers the question of what the mayor's code people screwed up? March of 2016 perhaps there will be some kind of event that remembers the people on the anniversary of the fire, just like we remember 9-1-1. So in March of 2016 will we know the results of the code inspection?
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
I'm sure you will just continue your unfounded speculations, even if/when there is a finality to whatever the investigation is. Typical and irresponsible. Place blame and make accusations, even though you don't know everything! Obviously too much time on your hands and not enough to do. My only surprise is that you haven't blames it al on DVOR and challenged him to answer what he did, why he did it and how he did it! Must be his fault and his single life status and lack of visibility to you in Schdy must all be underlying causes. Ask him...DVOR...WHAT DID YOU DO!!!!!!
JUST BECAUSE SISSY SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO...BUT HE THINKS IT DOES!!!!! JUST BECAUSE MC1 SAYS SO DOESN'T MAKE IT SO!!!!!
heard thru the grapevine that there were sprinkler systems but WERE NOT hooked up!!! also heard that they have been sited for violations before. don't look good for city code enforcers nor the owner....looks good for lawyers tho!!!!!
they are saying cigarette or candle ONLY because those were 2 things they saw in most apts. HOWEVER.....a meth incident is still being rumored.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
If everyone really want to know the out come of the inspections, just send a FOIL request, it may take some time but you will finally know
Not always. In some cases requests are initially denied to discourage a further pursuit. Then one must take the request to a higher level. Redaction of info. contained therein is always a possibility as well.
A state official says the city of Schenectady is failing to comply with the Freedom of Information Law by withholding code documents related to the fatal Jay Street fire on March 6. Robert Freeman, executive director of the state Committee on Open Government, said the city’s decision not to release Building Department documents regarding 100-102 and 104 Jay St. “makes little logical sense.” The Daily Gazette was denied code documents for 104 Jay St. two ...
For the benefit of those who can't read that link:
Quoted Text
SCHENECTADY
Official: City should release records
Papers sought on burned building BY HALEY VICCARO Gazette Reporter
Reach Gazette reporter Haley Viccaro at 395-3114, hviccaro@dailygazette . net or @HRViccaro on Twitter.
A state official says the city of Schenectady is failing to comply with the Freedom of Information Law by withholding code documents related to the fatal Jay Street fire on March 6.
Robert Freeman, executive director of the state Committee on Open Government, said the city’s decision not to release Building Department documents regarding 100-102 and 104 Jay St. “makes little logical sense.”
The Daily Gazette was denied code documents for 104 Jay St. two weeks ago in response to a FOIL request. The city cited an “ongoing criminal investigation” as the reason for not releasing the information. The Gazette has appealed the denial to the city; if the appeal is denied, the newspaper could further appeal the decision in state Supreme Court.
According to Building Inspector Eric Shilling, code enforcement officials inspected all 18 units of the building the day before the fire. The inspection was performed because of a recent change in ownership.
‘HOW IS IT LOGICAL?’ “If there wasn’t a fire, they would have disclosed those documents,” Freeman said. “They were prepared in the ordinary course of business, not for law enforcement purposes. They were public before and they should be public now. Its contents have not changed.”
According to the law, an agency can withhold records that “are compiled for law enforcement purposes and which, if disclosed, would interfere with law enforcement investigations or judicial proceedings; deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or impartial adjudication; identify a confidential source or disclose confidential information relating to a criminal investigation; or reveal criminal investigative techniques or procedures, except routine techniques and procedures.”
Freeman argued that the code enforcement documents were compiled before the fire and were not specifically for law enforcement purposes, as the law requires in order to withhold information.
“How is it logical that the documents would have been available three weeks ago, but cannot be available now if nothing has changed?” he said. “Even if this was a criminal investigation, those documents should be released under FOIL.”
The fire was ruled accidental, according to Schenectady Fire Chief Ray Senecal. The massive blaze that gutted the two buildings across from City Hall claimed the lives of Harry Simpson, 59, Robert Thomas, 31, and Berenices Suarez, 33, all of 104 Jay St., as well as Suarez’s boyfriend, Jermaine Allen, 37.
Shilling said the building had expired certifications for the alarm system, boiler and furnace; the alarm certification expired Feb. 26. He stressed that does not mean the alarms were not working the morning of the fire, hours after the inspection.
Several tenants who were displaced by the fire said the buildings had problems such as a nonworking elevator, faulty heating, garbage on fire escapes and loose wiring.
Schenectady County District Attorney Robert Carney issued a grand jury subpoena for the code documents two weeks ago. The investigation is still ongoing, he said Tuesday. Freeman said even though Carney’s office subpoenaed the documents, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be released to the public.
Meanwhile, city officials have declined to answer questions related to the two buildings, citing the ongoing investigation.
“It doesn’t seem to me that the law enforcement purposes exception would have applied,” Freeman said. “If there was no fire, they would have disclosed the information. If your apartment is inspected and there is a violation of code, you have the right to know about that."
Mayor is ignoring STATE law again, just like he ignored the STATE law regarding publishing foreclosures, just like he ignores STATE laws (present tense) about mandatory recycling, just like he has ALWAYS ignored city law about declaring snow emergency, just like he ALWAYS ignores(present tense) city laws regarding the enforcement of trash preparation, and just like he ALWAYS AND TO THIS DAY IGNORES STATE LAW for doing a citywide reassessment.
I understand the part about criminal investigation. Since the cause of the fire was ruled accidental then WHY is the city and the DA refusing to explain what is this criminal investigation? I think people wonder at this point:
-- Since the fire was ruled accidental and it was stated how it started, then obviously the tenant was not a criminal. But then, would taxpayer money be wasted to charge a dead person with a criminal act?
-- Is there a criminal investigation of the building's owner for having dangerous conditions in the building? Possibly, but if there were dangerous conditions in the building, then WHY did the mayor's code people fail to immediately order people out of the building?
-- Is the criminality the failure of the mayor's code people to act?
And lastly, the use of this phrase "ongoing criminal investigation" just a lame excuse to keep things secret, not inform the public now, and just hope everyone forgets?
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
And yes, remember, the leaders said the cause of the fire has been determined. They stated that it was accidental, from a person, now dead, from smoking, candle, whatever.
then WHY won't the city release the code inspection?????
Just what is the criminal inviestation? Does the STUPID a** MCCARTHY think a dead man is going to be charged with a crime?
If the fire was accidential, there is no crime. If there is no crime, there is no need for a criminal investigation.
Unless it's the mayor's own code people that fail to do their job.
Quoted Text
Release documents related to fire
There’s a certain degree of trust that must be maintained between a local government and its citizens. But it’s difficult for the government to retain that trust if it goes out of its way to keep secrets.
That’s what’s happening in the city of Schenectady regarding public documents related to the buildings involved in the March 6 fire on Jay Street that killed four occupants.
The Schenectady city government is withholding code enforcement documents related to the buildings — documents that before the fire were available to the public. The documents were turned over to the county district attorney’s office for its investigation into the fire.
The state Freedom of Information Law does allow government to withhold information specifically “compiled for law enforcement purposes” — the key phrase being “compiled for.” Law enforcement can legally withhold documents if their release could interfere with an investigation or reveal confidential information.
But that authority does not extend to public information that was collected for routine governmental purposes unrelated to any crime. In the case of the Jay Street fire, the city’s Building Department was already collecting information about the buildings before the fire started.
How then could officials justify taking public documents out of the public domain and making them secret for purposes of a criminal investigation for an incident that had yet to take place?
Officials say they’ll release the documents after the investigation is done. But given the open-ended nature of investigations, there’s no telling when the documents will be released, if ever.
Taking the documents out of the public domain under the blanket justification of a criminal investigation only raises suspicions about what the government might not want the public to know.
How does the public know, for instance, that those documents don’t contain information that could point to some fault on the part of the city or its employees? How does the public know whether code violations were found and if they might have contributed to the fire or its outcome? Could there be a cover-up to protect government officials that such documents would reveal?
We’re not suggesting anything of the kind is taking place. But how does the public know that for sure?
The only way to know would be for the citizens to be given the opportunity to review the documents for themselves.
The Gazette has filed Freedom of Information Law requests for the information with the city; those requests were denied. The paper is appealing the denials.
Government officials should realize that the public documents in this case remain public documents, even with an investigation taking place. The city should reconsider its position and release the documents immediately.
Otherwise, citizens rightly are going to keep wondering, “What are they trying to hide?”
Optimists close their eyes and pretend problems are non existent. Better to have open eyes, see the truths, acknowledge the negatives, and speak up for the people rather than the politicos and their rich cronies.
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