From channel 10

Quoted Text

The Town of Rotterdam is advising all Town residents keep water in their homes on to a small trickle to prevent the waterlines to their homes from freezing. The Town is experiencing numerous problems with this occurring due to the deep frost.

Mandate a change to have water meters and then tell us to leave the water running.  


   Yep, the DEMS working together

how statism works to 'pay it forward'.....

I'm unsure of what each generation leaves behind as solid ground???????

This might be McTHIEF in the city trying to get people to leave the town -- we had been paying $25 for water, then it went to $75.  God only knows what it would be if we had to buy meters and then do metered water.  

But in the city, if your house is on a lot just 25 to 50 feet wide, and you have to full bathrooms, that's pretty normal, the taxpayer about $250 in water cost which is NOT tax deductible.  And then there of course is a sewer fee that would be about $350, so easily $500 in "taxes" that the homeowner cannot deduct when filing taxes.


Now let's watch a certain cheerleader (a non-taxpayer) for McTHIEF and the high taxes in the city  reply and claim that what I wrote about water and sewer "taxes" is a lie.  

this isn't just about the buffoon.....this is about POOR POOR POOR PLANNING....

Rotterdam will be the new 'hill' soon enough.....

poor infrastructure, not kept up by the cheap a$$ previous generation
poor planning, not kept up by previous generation, only used as tool to 'grab some bucks'

raise the taxes
add metered water
postage stamp the comp plan without style
consolidate police forces
relocate the poor out of downtown
MFRH all over

and there you have it!!!!

let's talk about the abuse of government on it's people's backs....posterity?

new redlining....

So MC1, what are you proposing, because you have provided confusion!!!!
Are you suggesting that leaving water at a trickle should not be done and
homeowners take a chance at freezing pipes?  Just what are you trying to
say?

Quoted from joebxr

So MC1, what are you proposing, because you have provided confusion!!!!
Are you suggesting that leaving water at a trickle should not be done and
homeowners take a chance at freezing pipes?  Just what are you trying to
say?

Oh heck no, Joe, actually we've run hot water for 10 minutes about twice maybe three times a day when it gets near and below zero.  

But this call for us to pay for a meter and then pay metered water isn't something I really favor, not yet anyway.  It would depend on the rate.  I don't know how much might be typical usage, typical cost for a typical family.

Just like that cost of something like $1,500 was it that the town was going to force upon people in Highbridge area by forcing them to hook into the municipal sewer.  

From the Town of Colonie Public Works Department:
Our average residential customer uses approximately 75,000 gallons of water with charges of $203.00.

As someone who pays taxes here in Rotterdam and elsewhere.  I think it is only fair that people pay for the volume of water that they consume.

Benefits of Water Meters
by Tejvan Pettinger on March 31, 2009 in economics
Water is a valuable commodity; with global warming it appears to be even more scarce. A report suggested that British rivers could see an 80% decline in water volumes during the summer months because of global warming and increased demand.

With most scarce commodities like electricity and gas, you have to pay depending on how much you use. There would be no sense in providing electric sockets and then allowing people to consume as much as they like.

People have the assumption that water is free because it comes from the sky. But, clean drinking water has costs – costs of collecting, costs of filtering and costs of delivery. Furthermore, the last units of water have a higher marginal cost. To supply an extra 10% of water we need to build a new reservoir which is more expensive than easier sources of water.

However, the last units of water have a declining marginal utility. The first 10 litres of water we use per day have a high marginal utility – the water we drink. The next 50 litres have a reasonably high utility –  the water we need for washing. But, the next 50 litres would be of doubtful utility. This is the water we used for hosing the car, using a sprinkler in the garden or the water we use unnecessarily.

At the moment, water consumption is free so we consume up to a point where marginal utility is 0. But, the marginal cost of this water is much higher. This is allocatively inefficient.

If people were made to pay for the water they consume, they would think carefully about leaving taps on, they would have an incentive to fix dripping taps, they would wash a car with bucket rather than hosepipe.

If people really wanted to use water for sprinkling on the garden they could – if they are willing to pay for it.

Water Meters would have many advantages:

Encourage water conservation – important given strain on water resources
Encourage allocatively efficient distribution. People would consume to where the marginal cost = marginal utility
In long term lower overall water consumption would reduce cost of investing in unnecessary reservoirs, leading to even lower water bills.
I would recommend a form of price discrimination which makes consumption of water progressively expensive. i.e basic units would be cheap. But, to have more than a ‘normal amount’ e.g. for use to water the garden would be expensive.

With global warming excess water consumption is likely to have negative externalities e.g. loss of water from rivers deplete fish stocks e.t.c. – If this is the case we will need high prices on water to reflect the social cost.

The water companies should also be able to increase prices whenever there is a water shortage (and lower them when we have a very wet summer and water levels are high).

People will say it is not fair big families will have higher costs. But, it’s like saying it’s not fair big families have to spend more on food because there’s more people.

I really can’t think of any arguments against water meters. Just like I can’t think of any arguments to say electricity and gas should have a fixed price for unlimited use.

DVOR's blathering might have a hint of legitimacy if we weren't ALREADY paying some of highest county taxes in the state...but since that is not the case, the fixed water charge should stay.. it's one of the FEW benefits we get for living in this county.

BTW, the last time I checked, electric and gas were provided by PRIVATE companies, water is a municipal resource.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

As someone who pays taxes here in Rotterdam and elsewhere.  I think it is only fair that people pay for the volume of water that they consume.

[.

BIG FAT LIAR

Your name is NOT on the tax rolls so you are NOT a taxpayer.   There is no entity -- not government or private -- that recognizes you as a taxpayer.  If you were a taxpayer you could deduct your taxes on your tax return, but your name is NOT on the tax rolls so legally you are NOT a taxpayer.

Quoted from 55tbird

DVOR's blathering might have a hint of legitimacy if we weren't ALREADY paying some of highest county taxes in the state...but since that is not the case, the fixed water charge should stay.. it's one of the FEW benefits we get for living in this county.

BTW, the last time I checked, electric and gas were provided by PRIVATE companies, water is a municipal resource.

Since DV is NOT a taxpayer, and is not an adult,  he does not have to deal with financial issues of NORMAL adults, like having to decide between paying taxes or paying for medical, or food vs a new furnace, etc.    So, to DV, paying over $200 a year for water is something that is of absolutely no concern to him since his two rich mommies will pay for it (their old age income is so high they are not eligible for the STAR exemption for seniors and that is public information by law, so ANYONE can look up that information)

DV would even cheer if the annual water bill was $1,000, he doesn't care, he has no bills.



Now let's see, do we pay higher costs for based on the amount of recyclables we put out?   NO.   Do private waste collection companies mandate a certain size can based on the number of people in the family?   NO.  Many might opt for the bigger can with a bigger family but is not mandated to have a bigger can and pay for a bigger can.  If a larger can keep to one small can, that's OK.

The city government of Schenectady does NOT charge people by the amount of trash they put out, it is a FLAT FEE for each residence.

The water fee in Schenectady is based NOT on how much water a household uses, but by the width of the property, by how many toilets the house has, by how many bathtubs and/or showers the house has.   No let's see DV explain this.  If one is a single person and owns a two bathroom house, does that person use more water because they have two bathtubs?   Naturally DV will probably say that yes, the person does use more water because of having two toilets  

The sewer fee in Schenectady also is the same way, a single person has two bathrooms, does that person put more into the sewer because the person has two bathrooms?

Do people pay higher health insurance premiums based on higher usage of medical services?  NO.   Do the elderly, receiving their government Medicare pay a higher Medicare premium because they go to the doctor more often than any other person paying a Medicare B premium?   NO

Based on DV's cheering for metered water, obviously he would support the government charging for a town snowplowing fee based on the width of your property because there is a larger amount of snow that gets plowed in front of your house.  Surely he would support charging some owners a "hydrant fee" if they have a hydrant on their front lawn, after all, it has to be flushed out once a year, it has to be painted from time to time, etc.   There probably should be a "street sweeping fee" based on how much the width of your property is because it's more too sweep, perhaps people could opt out of that one too because they can use their own broom and dustpan to sweep the street in front of their house.  Oh yes, people should be charged by the government for each call they make to the police dept.   Gee, our "yard waste fee" should not be a flat fee, but perhaps by the number of bags or the number of pounds of yard waste we put out, but what happens if I do not have any trees on my property but my neighbors' properties have trees should I have to pay for their leaves that blow on my lawn?

We don't pay taxes on our houses based on the amount of services we receive, nor by the number of people that live in the house, and not necessarily by the size of the house.  Taxes are based on assessed value.   It is entirely possible that a two bedroom house with 2,000 square feet and no garage can be assessed at a higher assessment value than a four bedroom house with a garage but perhaps only 1,400 square feet.  There are so many things that determine the assessment value, but the fact is that no one is taxed based on having a bigger house vs a smaller one nor by the number of people that live in it.

Quoted from 55tbird

DVOR's blathering might have a hint of legitimacy if we weren't ALREADY paying some of highest county taxes in the state...but since that is not the case, the fixed water charge should stay.. it's one of the FEW benefits we get for living in this county.

BTW, the last time I checked, electric and gas were provided by PRIVATE companies, water is a municipal resource.

Electric and gas is provided by private companies AND the user pays for the volume of electricity and gas used.  The private companies do NOT charge one set fee and let you use as much as you would like.  Metered water would be the fairest way to ensure that those who use the water pay their fair share for what they use.

In states west of the Mississippi River, it is not unusual to find PRIVATE companies that provide water services for suburban and rural areas.  As the cost to maintain and upgrade aging water infrastructure increase, more cities and towns (in other states) are considering privatizing water service.  I don't recommend that we privatize our town's water service but I do think that metering the water service is a reasonable proposal.  As someone who pays taxes, I think that it is the fairest way to provide the service.    Why should I have to pay the same rate for water when my family and I are very prudent in our use of water while others use much more water and, often, don't care about wasting water?  

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

Electric and gas is provided by private companies AND the user pays for the volume of electricity and gas used.  The private companies do NOT charge one set fee and let you use as much as you would like.  Metered water would be the fairest way to ensure that those who use the water pay their fair share for what they use.

In states west of the Mississippi River, it is not unusual to find PRIVATE companies that provide water services for suburban and rural areas.  As the cost to maintain and upgrade aging water infrastructure increase, more cities and towns (in other states) are considering privatizing water service.  I don't recommend that we privatize our town's water service but I do think that metering the water service is a reasonable proposal.  As someone who pays taxes, I think that it is the fairest way to provide the service.    Why should I have to pay the same rate for water when my family and I are very prudent in our use of water while others use much more water and, often, don't care about wasting water?  

We are not talking about states west of the Mississippi, we are talking about Rotterdam and its municipal water system...which until last year, was a $ 25 a year charge...it then tripled to avoid going above 2% on property taxes. If our total tax rate was even middle of the road for the rest of state, a metered water system might have merit, but its not... its one of the highest in the state...and in the Country. Usually when a municipality provides water, they also provide sewer...Rotterdam does not except for a very few. I've already spent $8000 on a rebuilt septic system because Rotterdam doesn't have sewers. I'll continue to pay $250 a year to get my system pumped out to keep it viable so I don't have to go through the process again.

For my tax dollars, Rotterdam doesn't provide much in services. The water meters can stay on the shelves.