Quoted from joebxr

Then why did the residents shout "NO" in response to your remark? Seems to me they were saying
development was ok, but just not a big box!

If they were OK with development of the residential properties for a business (small shops was what was said) than it would have to be rezoned to allow that use.  Several times, the residents said that they wouldn't mind businesses on those properties which are now zoned residential.  So clearly they did not oppose the rezoning of the properties.  They were just opposed to the specific business which was making the application.  A municipality can't rezone a property or properties but then say -- but not for X company.  If the use is permitted (by the zoning language) than you can't exclude companies (proposing to use it within the permitted uses) that you don't like and permit only the companies that you do like.
The system was designed to be fair to BOTH the applicants and those who might oppose an application.

Of course, one solution to the problem would be for the Town Board, which only it can do, to update the town's zoning regulations and zoning map.  Clear, precise, updated zoning classifications would eliminate the problems - including "spot zoning."   It would give residents and developers a clear idea of what is and is not allowed -- and more importantly provide "vision" for what we actually want our town to look like in the years ahead.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

If they were OK with development of the residential properties for a business (small shops was what was said) than it would have to be rezoned to allow that use.  Several times, the residents said that they wouldn't mind businesses on those properties which are now zoned residential.  So clearly they did not oppose the rezoning of the properties.  They were just opposed to the specific business which was making the application.  A municipality can't rezone a property or properties but then say -- but not for X company.  If the use is permitted (by the zoning language) than you can't exclude companies (proposing to use it within the permitted uses) that you don't like and permit only the companies that you do like.
The system was designed to be fair to BOTH the applicants and those who might oppose an application.

Of course, one solution to the problem would be for the Town Board, which only it can do, to update the town's zoning regulations and zoning map.  Clear, precise, updated zoning classifications would eliminate the problems - including "spot zoning."   It would give residents and developers a clear idea of what is and is not allowed -- and more importantly provide "vision" for what we actually want our town to look like in the years ahead.

if this is true then that's the smartest statement you have ever made.....here on this forum

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

If they were OK with development of the residential properties for a business (small shops was what was said) than it would have to be rezoned to allow that use.  Several times, the residents said that they wouldn't mind businesses on those properties which are now zoned residential.  So clearly they did not oppose the rezoning of the properties.  They were just opposed to the specific business which was making the application.  A municipality can't rezone a property or properties but then say -- but not for X company.  If the use is permitted (by the zoning language) than you can't exclude companies (proposing to use it within the permitted uses) that you don't like and permit only the companies that you do like.
The system was designed to be fair to BOTH the applicants and those who might oppose an application.

Of course, one solution to the problem would be for the Town Board, which only it can do, to update the town's zoning regulations and zoning map.  Clear, precise, updated zoning classifications would eliminate the problems - including "spot zoning."   It would give residents and developers a clear idea of what is and is not allowed -- and more importantly provide "vision" for what we actually want our town to look like in the years ahead.

Yes, they were not opposed to smaller businesses and appropriate zoning.
I disagree that it was "the specific business"...it is clear by all information that was reported
in the Gazette and minutes of planning board meetings, that the residents were opposed
to a "big box" retailer, and it had nothing to do with it being CVS. That's why they shouted
"NO" to your remark....it wasn't CVS, it was BIG BOX RETAILER!!!

Quoted from joebxr

Yes, they were not opposed to smaller businesses and appropriate zoning.
I disagree that it was "the specific business"...it is clear by all information that was reported
in the Gazette and minutes of planning board meetings, that the residents were opposed
to a "big box" retailer, and it had nothing to do with it being CVS. That's why they shouted
"NO" to your remark....it wasn't CVS, it was BIG BOX RETAILER!!!

       I 2nd that, totally accurate!

Quoted from joebxr

it wasn't CVS, it was BIG BOX RETAILER!!!

EXACTLY!

Quoted from joebxr

Yes, they were not opposed to smaller businesses and appropriate zoning.
I disagree that it was "the specific business"...it is clear by all information that was reported
in the Gazette and minutes of planning board meetings, that the residents were opposed
to a "big box" retailer, and it had nothing to do with it being CVS. That's why they shouted
"NO" to your remark....it wasn't CVS, it was BIG BOX RETAILER!!!

exactly...no one wants to live in a circus atmosphere of cheesy big box retail.......it might be a quick buck for those that own
property in rotterdam but that don't live here or soon won't, only to leave sh!t behind.......they know the difference as does the
town board...again there are 2 choices:

1. in ept
2. corrupt

Quoted from joebxr

Yes, they were not opposed to smaller businesses and appropriate zoning.
I disagree that it was "the specific business"...it is clear by all information that was reported
in the Gazette and minutes of planning board meetings, that the residents were opposed
to a "big box" retailer, and it had nothing to do with it being CVS. That's why they shouted
"NO" to your remark....it wasn't CVS, it was BIG BOX RETAILER!!!

That is why the town needs to update its zoning regulations. Under the current zoning regulations, if you say it is OK for smaller businesses to be located in an area by zoning it for business than a "big box" business is legally permissible.  
The only question being voted on at that time was whether or not to recommend rezoning several residential properties to business.  The vote was not an approval or disapproval of a specific project or "big box retailers" in general.  
Rather than keep rehashing a past issue, the best course of action would be for residents to go the Town Board and strongly urge that the town's zoning regulations and map be updated.  Then, the town would be in a better to attract the kind of development that it wants --- and, we wouldn't be dealing with problems/controversies (Wal-Mart Supercenter, CVS, etc.) over and over again.  If you had an invasive weed in your yard, you'd get to its "roots" and deal with there -- rather than wasting energy year after year dealing with only the "shoots" that spring up.  Let's get to the roots and fix the zoning regulations instead of just talking and arguing about it.

Quoted from senders

if this is true then that's the smartest statement you have ever made.....here on this forum

I said that when I ran for Town Board almost 10 years ago, too.  It wasn't popular -- but it was the correct course of action to propose the.  It still is the correct course of action to take.

Not all the residents who voiced their opinion against the zoning modification said they were in favor of the zoning modification if it was for smaller commercial businesses on Lawndale avenue.  Trust me....I'm one of the residents and I spoke not being in favor of any zoning modification to any of the properties.  Any commercial business on Lawndale will introduce more traffic onto a residential street where people walk and kids play in their yards.  Zoning modification for the entire town needs to be carefully planned and addressed as part of a comprehensive plan by a professional.  Zoning modification should not be left up to someone has no Engineering or Architecture professional credentials.

Redoing the zoning map and changing the regulations would introduce another set
of issues and problems. I'm unclear on why DVOR states this is a solution! Zoning as is today
is not an issue, that I'm aware of. It requires any changes from existing zoning to be
presented, with specific development plan, and approved. Seems to me this is still
the best way and maintains the interest of the residents effected.

Quoted from joebxr

Redoing the zoning map and changing the regulations would introduce another set
of issues and problems. I'm unclear on why DVOR states this is a solution! Zoning as is today
is not an issue, that I'm aware of. It requires any changes from existing zoning to be
presented, with specific development plan, and approved. Seems to me this is still
the best way and maintains the interest of the residents effected.

we don't have a COMP PLAN....that would require style, patina, class......

it's not the zoning that's the issue....it's the 'walmart taste/patina' of willy-nilly zoning.....

Quoted from joebxr

Redoing the zoning map and changing the regulations would introduce another set
of issues and problems. I'm unclear on why DVOR states this is a solution! Zoning as is today
is not an issue, that I'm aware of. It requires any changes from existing zoning to be
presented, with specific development plan, and approved. Seems to me this is still
the best way and maintains the interest of the residents effected.

Why would it introduce another set of issues and problems?  

The zoning regs as they are written ARE THE ISSUE.  The best way to do planning is to have some consensus on what you want the town or municipality to look like now and in the future.  Then you draft zoning regulations  and draw a zoning map that explicitly says  what you want  (and don't want) in the municipality.  Neither have been updated in years.  You'd be surprised at properties that are zoned -based on the current map - light industrial (near railroads) or business in what looks like residential neighborhoods

A change of zoning does not automatically mean that a specific development plan has been approved.  They are two separate and  distinct processes.   You could change the zoning for a property for an applicant who is planning project A - and for some reason project A is never approved and/or never built.  The zoning for the property doesn't revert back to its old zoning.  The zoning has been changed.   So let's say the developer wanted to build a strip or series of small shops and gets residential properties rezoned to business.  For some reason -- say the financing falls apart - the small shops are never built.  Now larger retailer comes in and wants to build a "big box" -- if the use falls within the permitted uses of the business zoning and all other criteria are met (curb cuts, traffic, # of parking spaces, etc.) than it would be extremely difficult - if not impossible - to legally withhold approval of the project.

BIG BOX IS BAD FOR SMALL TOWNS....SIMPLE....It's just crappy trashy....

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

That statement is without any basis in fact.  

It has been my experience in attending commission meetings that its extremely, overwhelmingly rare for anyone besides the applicants or representatives of the applicants to even attend the meeting.  When the others do attend, they are given the opportunity to comment and their comments ARE taken very seriously.

The factual record bears this out.  Concerns raised in public comments kept Guildercrest/Helderberg Meadows in planning process for a few decades and forced it to go through many revisions and changes.

The FACT is that when the public comes to public meetings and raised concerns those concerns are taken VERY seriously.

The factual record is that Helderberg Meadows was crammed down the throats of the surrounding residents even after hours of comments by these same residents. The land was a swamp, protected wetlands that the Army Corp of Engineers said 30 years ago would never be built on. One local resident who, a hydraulic engineer, stated very clearly that the building of this road/development would cause both the development and neighboring properties to flood, but no one from the town boards cared to listen. Today the properties along the West side of Helderberg Ave closest to the development property do flood and the homes in certain parts of the development continuously have basement water issues, some with sump pumps that run all year long. Not to mention the road that is heaving in places and collapsing in others from the water that flows beneath it.

The town and its boards do what they want and listens to who ever threatens/pays the most so why speak out. Everyone knows this is a builders town, if you can't get it build anywhere else bring the idea to Rotterdam. We are the "Mikey"  of the building world.

Quoted from RPEGCL

The factual record is that Helderberg Meadows was crammed down the throats of the surrounding residents even after hours of comments by these same residents. The land was a swamp, protected wetlands that the Army Corp of Engineers said 30 years ago would never be built on. One local resident who, a hydraulic engineer, stated very clearly that the building of this road/development would cause both the development and neighboring properties to flood, but no one from the town boards cared to listen. Today the properties along the West side of Helderberg Ave closest to the development property do flood and the homes in certain parts of the development continuously have basement water issues, some with sump pumps that run all year long. Not to mention the road that is heaving in places and collapsing in others from the water that flows beneath it.

The town and its boards do what they want and listens to who ever threatens/pays the most so why speak out. Everyone knows this is a builders town, if you can't get it build anywhere else bring the idea to Rotterdam. We are the "Mikey"  of the building world.

AMEN!!!
No one in REDNECK ROTTENdam has the smarts/intelligence/education to deal with building/construction. All they see is $$$$$$ and how this will benefit the few.

So as a side note to MC1.....the same thing is happening in YOUR town as in the city of Schenectady. Those folks who were stupid enough to buy those homes that now have water problems and pay high taxes, will never be able to sell their homes for it's original value. Start looking in your own backyard.....if you even care!