Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

Provide the proof to back up your statement.  Show the actual reports in the newspapers which provided minutes of  or even verbatim transcripts of the actual negotiations -- not the various announcements made at certain points in the process.  You won't be able to because they do NOT negotiate in the media.

I never said "minutes".  But they have publicly stated several times that they were in negotiations with businesses.  I'm not saying they give the exact terms to a deal, but they do make public which business they are currently in negotiations with.

Example:
After talks with the owner of the historic structure failed to reach an agreement, Metroplex Development Authority yesterday voted to start an eminent domain process.

The six-story building, at 508 State St. in downtown Schenectady, is more than a century old and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

According to Metroplex, if negotiations continue to be stalled, the agency will seize the hotel, begin an environmental review, schedule a public hearing so it can move forward with a project for the Foster site, and seek a $200,000 loan from the Upstate Regional Blue Print Fund to help pay for renovation.

“The Foster building must be saved,” said Ray Gillen, chairman of the Metroplex board. “While extensive new construction and major renovations have been completed on much of the Proctors Block downtown, this building has continued to deteriorate.

“We have begun a process today that will insure the preservation of this historic building,” Gillen added.

Quoted from CICERO

I never said "minutes".  But they have publicly stated several times that they were in negotiations with businesses.  I'm not saying they give the exact terms to a deal, but they do make public which business they are currently in negotiations with.

Example:
After talks with the owner of the historic structure failed to reach an agreement, Metroplex Development Authority yesterday voted to start an eminent domain process.

The six-story building, at 508 State St. in downtown Schenectady, is more than a century old and is listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

According to Metroplex, if negotiations continue to be stalled, the agency will seize the hotel, begin an environmental review, schedule a public hearing so it can move forward with a project for the Foster site, and seek a $200,000 loan from the Upstate Regional Blue Print Fund to help pay for renovation.

“The Foster building must be saved,” said Ray Gillen, chairman of the Metroplex board. “While extensive new construction and major renovations have been completed on much of the Proctors Block downtown, this building has continued to deteriorate.

“We have begun a process today that will insure the preservation of this historic building,” Gillen added.

So you provided evidence that proves my point.  They do NOT actually negotiate in public.  There may be reports on progress but they do NOT negotiate in public.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

So you provided evidence that proves my point.  They do NOT actually negotiate in public.  There may be reports on progress but they do NOT negotiate in public.

you're splitting hairs here!

Quoted from CICERO

Example:
After talks with the owner of the historic structure failed to reach an agreement, Metroplex Development Authority yesterday voted to start an eminent domain process.

Yeah, but the wuss Gillen never stayed strong on eminent domain.   Instead he lavished a quarter million dollars on Alsdorf & Todd (twice what the scum pair bought the building for) paying them with taxpayers' money.  And the back taxes on the building that were owed, oh, they were paid by Civiltello's and all the other homeowners in the city.  

Quoted from mikechristine1

Yeah, but the wuss Gillen never stayed strong on eminent domain.   Instead he lavished a quarter million dollars on Alsdorf & Todd (twice what the scum pair bought the building for) paying them with taxpayers' money.  And the back taxes on the building that were owed, oh, they were paid by Civiltello's and all the other homeowners in the city.  

BLAH BLAH BLAH...millionaires.
BLAH BLAH BLAH...businessman's fault.
Why don't you go back and answer the questions and provide facts?
Why do you ignore those requests and questions?
Why are you not addressing the things that have been asked?
Why are you trolling around without providing the facts and answers?
Well, appears you cannot, since you have no facts and can't
provide answers because they contradict your constant, repetitive rants!
How about it MC1...step in anytime and discuss it with facts and answers,
not conjecture and assumptions....those are not facts!
Give us your business expertise and tell us how these "millionaires"
should have handled the incentives....still waiting.
You continue to ignore request for FACTS; PROOF; SUPPORT;
LINKS; VERIFIABLE INFORMATION to support your claims!
How about it...gonna deal directly with all the number of
issues/questions you been asked to respond to on this thread,
or continue to ignore them.....how would you handle it if DVOR didn't provide
"FACTS"....oh wait, we know...you dog him and thread bomb him.....YOUR TURN!!!!!

Quoted from joebxr

BLAH BLAH BLAH...millionaires.
BLAH BLAH BLAH...businessman's fault.
Why don't you go back and answer the questions and provide facts?
Why do you ignore those requests and questions?
Why are you not addressing the things that have been asked?
Why are you trolling around without providing the facts and answers?
Well, appears you cannot, since you have no facts and can't
provide answers because they contradict your constant, repetitive rants!
How about it MC1...step in anytime and discuss it with facts and answers,
not conjecture and assumptions....those are not facts!

OK


The two women do have the place up for sale for $650,000.   Here is the listing from Realty USA.   It's been listed for about 5 months.





List price is $650,000 which is MORE THAN THREE TIMES the market value (based on the assessment value and equalization rate) and the evidence has proven over the past several years that most properties are selling much lower than the city's claim of market value.

IF the property did sell for it's asking price, that would indicate the market value of the property is about $650,000 and the city would have to reassess it upwards which, if it did so while doing a reval that substantially reduces the assessments of all the houses in the city (evidenced by massively falling property values which is evidenced by massively falling sale prices), the current combined tax rate in the city of about $43 would probably be $65 so do the math on an assessment value of even $600,000.   If a buyer bought it for $650,000 with 20% down, then a mortgage at 4.5% would cost just over $2,600 a month.

I stated earlier that the total assessment value is about $240,00.  Here is the evidence proving that fact from the 2014 city assessment roll.  It is specifically $239,600.  Total market value (based on the equalization rate) is just under $195,000.

I stated they are a taxpaying business and the evidence is proven here (the only exemption is the STAR basic that they have on their residence only).

The total taxes on the property is about $12,000 a year.   The total school taxes with STAR basic with the new school tax rate of about $22.61 is just about $4,750.   The combined tax rate for the city and county tax is just about $21 so the calculation means a tax of just about $5,000.  Then three trash fees (do I really need to circle the trash indicator for you?) which is $218 each which is $654.  (the business property does not have city trash pick up, they have to arrange and pay for that from the private sector).   Then the water and sewer fees, based on the frontage of each property, based on the known numbers bathrooms and based on the numbers of residential units, and using the fees the city charged in 2011, those fees are about $1,750.  

As you will see, since they ARE paying taxes, that is the evidence that they are paying the tax bill of their competition.   Figure, they are not millionaires, but they are paying their own taxes plus they are paying the taxes their Villla Italia competition, not to mention since Villa Italia was largely built at taxpayer expense, and since the women are taxpayers, they in effect paid to build a new building for their competition -- but have the dems come to help them in anyway?






While not sure what happened on the previous sale deal, assuming you can read, you can see they intended to go to Saratoga or Clifton Park (where taxes are lower---do you need evidence of that?), as they wanted to expand.   This was after the dems took over Schenectady, it was in Biz Journal.   They said they wanted to expand.

Is the city of Schenectady lacking in property that they could have moved to in order to expand?  The thing is that if they had  bought in Schenectady back then, the would have taken a loss as the property would be worth less now and the taxes have increased drastically.






You can find view mortgages online, can't you?


Based on that asking price, it really seems they are not trying hard to sell.  

There are a number of mom and pop businesses that have been existence for many decades.  These businesses stuck it out in the city through the best of times and worst of times, PAYING TAXES.  They paid taxes during the Depression years, and they paid taxes during the booming hey day years in the city.   They stayed in business and paid taxes during the DV so called "ghost town" years of downtown, and then they tried to stay in business under the dem leadership when we all know these places have all been snubbed by the dem leadership and Metroplex.  Again, I'm not saying I favor Metroplex, but why does Metroplex dole out taxpayer money to millionaires, billionaires, and tax deadbeats (Galesi, Paul Mitchell, the Hilton family, Mallozzi, and the tax deadbeat delinquents such as Marcella, and that pair of scum Alsdorf and Todd).  

I mean really, think, Galesi is a billionaire and the two women of Civitello's are paying taxes  to pay for the demolition of Galesi's building--the old DSS, but the city does nothing for them?   Do I need to provide the evidence of all the properties downtown owned by millionaires that are tax exempt and especially have no end dates?   Do I have to repost the evidence of the successful lawsuits against the city over property value?


In the absence of any story in the local news containing an interview of the two women, we don't know their plans 100% for certain.  Unless you are a CEO or other top exec of a big company, or unless you are a public sector employee with a lavish pension, or unless you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth, it's almost impossible to retire in your mid 50's.  Stock market is too risky,  savings does not generate interest, even today savings bonds take almost 20 years to mature.   You can't withdraw from tax free retirement savings and even those accounts are not generating all that much there are limits to how much you can put into them.  And somehow having the funds to give you perhaps $40,000 a year now bet that in 2044 you'd need $100,000 a year.  

And the evidence proves that they are not high income because that would make them ineligible for the STAR basic exemption.

Is there any information to how much the business takes in each year?

You obviously continue to throw smoke screens and don't want to go back and read
the issues and questions that were asked for your response.  Fine, I'll just take that
to mean you made false statements that cannot be supported by facts; that you have
a vendetta against businesses that have rec'd incentive from Metroplex but have no real
understanding of what they did and why or how they should have managed it.
You just like to rant and attack DVOR for not providing proof and responding directly to
what's been asked, when you do the same thing (read this whole thread and maybe the light will go on).  
A business expert you are not. Conjecture and assumptions are not FACTS!
Carry on as you want...done trying to get you to justify your outrageous claims or
explain how business should have managed incentives and why and results.
Your expertise appears to be stalk; cut/paste; bomb! I can see why DVOR won't
address your rants.

Quoted from bumblethru

you're splitting hairs here!

Not really.  Metroplex and other economic development organizations do NOT negotiate publicly.  Most announcements are made only after the entire plan is in place and set to be unveiled.  The Mohawk Harbor project is unique in that it has a number of components -- some details have been announced -- other have not yet been revealed.  But never have the actual negotiations been conducted publicly.

heard if you use a real lemon on your feet....would make them ok to put in one's mouth.

Quoted from joebxr

; that you have a vendetta against businesses that have rec'd incentive from Metroplex

It is about GREED.   Plex does NOT give money out to long time taxpaying businesses with average incomes.  

So I think I understand what you are saying, that the businesses is offered money and what business would decline  taking money like that.  

Then I guess what you are saying is that the business is not to blamed for accepting the taxpayers' money that plex offers.   It's a business decision for them to cut expenses and take the money.  So should we then praise the businesses, become their customers, buy things from them, help them get richer when their very existence is causing a massive decline in the city's tax base?

Would it be proper for ANY of us to shop for appliances at Marcella's?   Do taxpayers in the city get a discount at Marcella's seeing as they paid for his new building and are paying his property taxes?  

It was a business decision for Marcella's to accept plex's offer to build him a new building at taxpayer expense.   It was a building decision for him to accept the offer from the city, county, and plex that he is totally exempt from property taxes, thus the homeowners in the city are taxed so much more than many lose their houses.

Those were business decisions that Marcella's made, should ANYONE shop there now, after he accepted an offer for a brand spanking new building on the taxpayer dole and homeowners now struggling trying to pay the taxes on his building, and he choose to avoid living IN the city or even in the county, should ANYONE OF US patronize his business now that after he got millions from the taxpayers he has made a choice to STEAL from the homeowners by choosing to become a TAX DEADBEAT????

Quoted from mikechristine1

It is about GREED.   Plex does NOT give money out to long time taxpaying businesses with average incomes.  

So I think I understand what you are saying, that the businesses is offered money and what business would decline  taking money like that.  

Then I guess what you are saying is that the business is not to blamed for accepting the taxpayers' money that plex offers.   It's a business decision for them to cut expenses and take the money.  So should we then praise the businesses, become their customers, buy things from them, help them get richer when their very existence is causing a massive decline in the city's tax base?

Would it be proper for ANY of us to shop for appliances at Marcella's?   Do taxpayers in the city get a discount at Marcella's seeing as they paid for his new building and are paying his property taxes?  

It was a business decision for Marcella's to accept plex's offer to build him a new building at taxpayer expense.   It was a building decision for him to accept the offer from the city, county, and plex that he is totally exempt from property taxes, thus the homeowners in the city are taxed so much more than many lose their houses.

Those were business decisions that Marcella's made, should ANYONE shop there now, after he accepted an offer for a brand spanking new building on the taxpayer dole and homeowners now struggling trying to pay the taxes on his building, and he choose to avoid living IN the city or even in the county, should ANYONE OF US patronize his business now that after he got millions from the taxpayers he has made a choice to STEAL from the homeowners by choosing to become a TAX DEADBEAT????

BLAH BLAH BLAH...millionaires.
BLAH BLAH BLAH...businessman's fault.
BLAH BLAH BLAH...steal from taxpayers
Why don't you go back and answer the questions and provide facts?
Why do you ignore those requests and questions?
Why are you not addressing the things that have been asked?
Why are you trolling around without providing the facts and answers?
Well, appears you cannot, since you have no facts and can't
provide answers because they contradict your constant, repetitive rants!
How about it MC1...step in anytime and discuss it with facts and answers,
not conjecture and assumptions....those are not facts!
Give us your business expertise and tell us how these "millionaires"
should have handled the incentives....still waiting.
You continue to ignore request for FACTS; PROOF; SUPPORT;
LINKS; VERIFIABLE INFORMATION to support your claims!
How about it...gonna deal directly with all the number of
issues/questions you been asked to respond to on this thread,
or continue to ignore them.....how would you handle it if DVOR didn't provide
"FACTS"....oh wait, we know...you dog him and thread bomb him.....YOUR TURN!!!!!
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH!!!!!!!
You simply don't get it!

Quoted from joebxr

Let's see, and also you have proof that they wanted to move to Saratoga?  Were they going to get tax incentives
so that's why they wanted to move, or was it a business or other decision? I mean, they would still be paying
taxes in Saratoga without assistance, so not sure how that is a contributing factor to any of this????

SUBSTANTIALLY lower taxes in Saratoga, Joe.   AND increasing property values in Saratoga, Joe.

If they had a place in Saratoga valued for the same as the place in Schenectady it would be twice the size for less taxes.

The women are NOT quoted as saying that Saratoga or Clifton Park were going to pay them to move.  My only point is that in Schenectady the long time TAXPAYING businesses who stayed through the best and worst of times, and paid taxes are ignored by Metroplex.  

Is it better for Metroplex to steal from the taxpayers and dole out money to millioniares and billionaires who mostly did not pay taxes in the city and today are NOT paying taxes?   Or is it better that they help the long time taxpaying businesses who paid taxes for, 60, 70, 80 years or more?  I mean why does the city, county, and plex want to put the long time mom and pop businesses out of business by virtue of increasing their taxes to pay for the taxes of the millionanires and billionaires.

Why don't the little mom and pop businesses get help along with the rich who don't even want to live in the city?

that whole area is a goldmine and it has just begun......Hooray for Saratoga County...they know how to do it...

lessons should be learned from them....they give everyone a square deal to operate their business...

and besides.....they have the Track....rich and famous.....all are equal in Saratoga..

And tell us Joe, can you tell us why Civitello's should pay the taxes of their competition Villa Italia who are millionaires?


And even more,  tell us Joe, do you think it's proper for Civitello's to pay for a new building for Marcella's AND pay the property taxes on his new building, AND THEN PAY HIS DELINQUENT TAXES?????


Joe, is it proper that the city and plex continue the tax exemptions on Marcella's give in that he is a deadbeat tax delinquent on his other properties in the city?   The city and plex take from the taxpayers to bestow a lavish new building upon a businessman who does not live in the city, then requires the financially struggling homeowners to pay the property and school taxes on his expensive new building, and then the businessman chooses to snub those homeowners by making him pay his delinquent taxes!!!!!!!!   That is a crime!   Typical CORRUPTION in Schenctady

Quoted from mikechristine1

And tell us Joe, can you tell us why Civitello's should pay the taxes of their competition Villa Italia who are millionaires?


And even more,  tell us Joe, do you think it's proper for Civitello's to pay for a new building for Marcella's AND pay the property taxes on his new building, AND THEN PAY HIS DELINQUENT TAXES?????


Joe, is it proper that the city and plex continue the tax exemptions on Marcella's give in that he is a deadbeat tax delinquent on his other properties in the city?   The city and plex take from the taxpayers to bestow a lavish new building upon a businessman who does not live in the city, then requires the financially struggling homeowners to pay the property and school taxes on his expensive new building, and then the businessman chooses to snub those homeowners by making him pay his delinquent taxes!!!!!!!!   That is a crime!   Typical CORRUPTION in Schenctady

Tell me MC1...when are you going to answer the questions and issues asked rather than more dribble and asking me to answer questions?
How about it. Prove your boasts with DOCUMENTED FACT! Answer my questions. Address issues you've been asked to address.
Then maybe we can have a discussions instead of you just repeating the same old BLAH BLAH BLAH hatred filled rants
you have posted a hundred plus times in a hundred plus threads. How about it MC1...you keep avoiding dealing directly
with the requests...why is that...is it because you can't?  That's what it appears to be. You keep throwing smoke screens
instead of facts.  Start with the original post you started this thread with and follow down...you will see what's been asked
of you that you do not reply to! Doubt you will, because you have no facts and addressing questions would go against
your rants. Show us your infinite business wisdom, because right now it's bordering on non-existent.