Quoted from bumblethru

the point is..........this is nothing more than opinions and speculation!!!! It's no secret that i'm not a fan of the METROPLEX/GILLEN or the current dem party that controls Schenectady.....HOWEVER.....to suggest that their selling lays at the feet of the METROPLEX/GILLEN or the current controlling dem party is a far reach without FACTS.

and as a side note.....we know many folks who have retired before the age of 62!!

Public workers with lavish pension retire before age 62.

Millionaires retire before age 62.

NO ONE retires if their only investments are in stock because stock could drop.   Average workers are NOT seeing their 401K's grow very much.  People who have $500,000 salaries and can put $250,000 away each year, maybe they can retire.

But even in Saratoga where the household income might be $75,000 a year, no way can one put enough money from their jobs to retire in their age 50s (unless they got some inheritance from relative who were on the public pension dole.

I'd be very interested in seeing someone illustrate how putting the max allowed into 401K while paying a mortgage, supporting a famiiy, paying two cars, paying kids' college, maintaining a house on $100,00 income a year can allow you to retire in your 50's without a guaranteed pension.  Public workers get a handsome guaranteed pension.  But GE workers for example, really, pensions of $15,000 a year maybe, how can anyone live on that at age 55?   I don't even think GE would pay pensions until 62 or 65.

These two women, remember, they have to pay all their own health insurance.   They have to pay their own share PLUS the employer share into social security.   They do NOT have an employer provided pension plan, they have to save themselves.  Do we know what the gross income of the business is that would allow them to amass such a huge fortune so that both of them could retire in the age 50 range?  I think their prices are reasonable so doubtful they are becoming millionaires on those prices.

You are "assuming" so much and believing that your "speculation" is sufficient reasoning
for unfounded statements.  Sorry, but these are all YOUR ASSUMPTIONS and to claim them as
anything other than that is irresponsible.

So you have not supported with "FACTS" that their move is driven by lack of political incentive.  
You've assumed so much for them and their ability to move to other locations...but
leaving off that they need to sell the existing property first.  If not they would
carry mortgage/property taxes on two facilities, one of them empty...bad business.

You also tie the move to Saratoga and Clifton Park as tax reasons...you ignore the fact that both of those areas
are experiencing growth (vs Schdy) and offer more lucrative opportunity for business, especially
one like theirs which is not very common in those areas.


While we're at it, why do you choose not to discuss/debate/answer this earlier post?

Quoted from joebxr

You also seem to have disregarded the other points....why do you ignore them and not debate them as you say
you would like. Explain the great business decision that Mallozzi's and others should have made and refused
the incentives...explain how that is smart business as opposed to what they did! Love to hear that justification!

Why not give us your great business wisdom answer?

Of course, MC1 has no answer because it conflicts with his rants so he doesn't respond.

Quoted from mikechristine1

   The evidence does show that Metroplex never offered them anything.  

Metroplex pretty much only helps out millionaires and the evidence supports that.  

FIRST.........thank GOD METROPLEX/GILLEN never offered them anything!! That's what most here have only hoped for!!! NO MORE METROPLEX/GILLEN BAIL OUTS!!!

SECOND......I'm confused here MC1.....you bit@h cause METROPLEX/GILLEN gives bail outs to their 'friends and family club'.....and yet you want them to bail out YOUR 'friends and family club'.

MC1...would you then approve and support the METROPLEX/GILLEN if they bailed out Civitellos, Rudnicks, Mr. James....etc...?

Quoted from bumblethru

FIRST.........thank GOD METROPLEX/GILLEN never offered them anything!! That's what most here have only hoped for!!! NO MORE METROPLEX/GILLEN BAIL OUTS!!!

SECOND......I'm confused here MC1.....you bit@h cause METROPLEX/GILLEN gives bail outs to their 'friends and family club'.....and yet you want them to bail out YOUR 'friends and family club'.

MC1...would you then approve and support the METROPLEX/GILLEN if they bailed out Civitellos, Rudnicks, Mr. James....etc...?

BOOM!
b**ch if they hand out incentives....
b**ch if they don't hand out incentives....
BOOM!

Isn't it true in a true capitlalistic society NO ONE should receive corporate welfare.   If your business cannot survive on it's own then apparently there is no market for the goods/services you are offerering.   That, or you are mismanaging your business and if so have no business being in business.

Quoted from MOONGLOW

Isn't it true in a true capitlalistic society NO ONE should receive corporate welfare.   If your business cannot survive on it's own then apparently there is no market for the goods/services you are offerering.   That, or you are mismanaging your business and if so have no business being in business.

I'm not sure Metroplex money is being used as bailouts, which I think is what you are referring to.
I think it is all funding/incentives driven to retaining businesses/moving businesses to downtown, primarily.

Quoted from joebxr

I'm not sure Metroplex money is being used as bailouts, which I think is what you are referring to.
I think it is all funding/incentives driven to retaining businesses/moving businesses to downtown, primarily.

retaining businesses? why do they need incentives or retaining efforts?

Quoted from senders

retaining businesses? why do they need incentives or retaining efforts?

don't recall that I said any of that was needed...try reading previous posts...
my understanding is that is part of Metroplex mission; purpose.

Quoted from joebxr

don't recall that I said any of that was needed...try reading previous posts...
my understanding is that is part of Metroplex mission; purpose.

It was a general question. I was just wondering why governments need to do this at all........there's something wrong
with the fixed system when it needs so many levers and pulleys and props.....

Quoted from MOONGLOW

Isn't it true in a true capitlalistic society NO ONE should receive corporate welfare.   If your business cannot survive on it's own then apparently there is no market for the goods/services you are offerering.   That, or you are mismanaging your business and if so have no business being in business.

That is the way that it works in theory.  The reality is that the whole world does not operate under that system. The countries, which produce the cars and consumer goods that most Americans buy, heavily "incentivize" these industries and businesses with everything from direct subsidies to favorable tax laws.   Many Americans say that they want free market capitalism but then purchase most of their goods from countries that don't have that system.

Many Americans say that they want produce that is free from chemicals and "gmo's" - yet they patronize companies like Price Chopper that proudly advertise that they sell "perfect looking" produce ---- produce that was grown and harvested using "Franken-Food" practices.

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

That is the way that it works in theory.  The reality is that the whole world does not operate under that system. The countries, which produce the cars and consumer goods that most Americans buy, heavily "incentivize" these industries and businesses with everything from direct subsidies to favorable tax laws.   Many Americans say that they want free market capitalism but then purchase most of their goods from countries that don't have that system.

I don't understand....are  you suggesting that Schenectadians buy/use/support businesses 'incentivized' with government taxes?

Quoted from DemocraticVoiceOfReason

That is the way that it works in theory.  The reality is that the whole world does not operate under that system. The countries, which produce the cars and consumer goods that most Americans buy, heavily "incentivize" these industries and businesses with everything from direct subsidies to favorable tax laws.   Many Americans say that they want free market capitalism but then purchase most of their goods from countries that don't have that system.

Many Americans say that they want produce that is free from chemicals and "gmo's" - yet they patronize companies like Price Chopper that proudly advertise that they sell "perfect looking" produce ---- produce that was grown and harvested using "Franken-Food" practices.

So tax exemptions and grants are given to local businesses because of foreign competition and imports?  What foreign company is competing with Bombers Buritto that would require a government subsidy to help them compete?  

Quoted from joebxr

You are "assuming" so much and believing that your "speculation" is sufficient reasoning
for unfounded statements.  Sorry, but these are all YOUR ASSUMPTIONS and to claim them as
anything other than that is irresponsible.

So you have not supported with "FACTS" that their move is driven by lack of political incentive.  
You've assumed so much for them and their ability to move to other locations...but
leaving off that they need to sell the existing property first.  If not they would
carry mortgage/property taxes on two facilities, one of them empty...bad business.

You also tie the move to Saratoga and Clifton Park as tax reasons...you ignore the fact that both of those areas
are experiencing growth (vs Schdy) and offer more lucrative opportunity for business, especially
one like theirs which is not very common in those areas.


While we're at it, why do you choose not to discuss/debate/answer this earlier post?

Quoted from joebxr

You also seem to have disregarded the other points....why do you ignore them and not debate them as you say
you would like. Explain the great business decision that Mallozzi's and others should have made and refused
the incentives...explain how that is smart business as opposed to what they did! Love to hear that justification!

Why not give us your great business wisdom answer?

Of course, MC1 has no answer because it conflicts with his rants so he doesn't respond.

What's up MC1?

Why are you not answering the questions?

Why aren't you addressing the issue with facts?

Why do you throw out assumptions and think they are facts then you can't provide substantiation?

Why are you avoiding answering?

You don't have facts!
You don't have factual information!
You can't provide justification beyond conjecture and assumptions!
You won't even provide answer to how you would manage business if offered incentives!
You are only hung up on millionaires and Metroplex and want to blame everything on them!

How about it MC1, when are you going to answer?
When are you going to provide real FACTS?
Which is it....do you want Metroplex to give incentives or not...you've talked
both sides placing blame as you see fit.  How about it MC1?
You just want to attack businesses that have rec'd Metroplex incentives, but you
refuse to offer your business knowledge on what these businessmen should have done
instead, and show how that would have benefitted Schdy and the taxpayers.  How about it MC1...
when are you gong to share your wisdom and business knowledge?

The one FACT I can offer is...when Marcella's and Villia Italia threatened to move their businesses out of the county, Metroplex was quick to offer them tax breaks and grants to persuade them to stay in Schenectady.  The Gazette has printed articles of Metroplex boasting about how their subsidies prevented them from leaving.  On the other hand, Civitello's has publicly stated they were looking to expand outside of the county, and there have been no public statements from Metroplex stating their efforts to keep Civitello's in Schenectady.  

I'm not agreeing with Metroplex subsidies, just pointing out the inconsistencies with which businesses Metroplex actively pursues to prevent them from leaving the county.

Quoted from CICERO

The one FACT I can offer is...when Marcella's and Villia Italia threatened to move their businesses out of the county, Metroplex was quick to offer them tax breaks and grants to persuade them to stay in Schenectady.  The Gazette has printed articles of Metroplex boasting about how their subsidies prevented them from leaving.  On the other hand, Civitello's has publicly stated they were looking to expand outside of the county, and there have been no public statements from Metroplex stating their efforts to keep Civitello's in Schenectady.  

I'm not agreeing with Metroplex subsidies, just pointing out the inconsistencies with which businesses Metroplex actively pursues to prevent them from leaving the county.

There are also no statements that Civitello's is still wanting to expand.

There are also no facts presented or available that state they are selling because they
have been pushed out by politicians (as MC1 claims).

I think Metroplex boats about those 2 businesses because they are successes and
do contribute with sales tax revenue that otherwise wouldn't be there, as well as
jobs that would not be there.

Let me clarify once again...I think Metroplex is inefficiently run and mismanaged
and should be reviewed by the Attorney General for improprieties. With the funds they've
had available to them, economic growth in Schdy should be greater than it is.
Poorly managed; poorly executed.