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A move to divide upstate and downstate
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rpforpres
February 18, 2014, 7:37am Report to Moderator

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What a great idea : )  

http://www.newamsterdamny.org/
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HarryP
February 18, 2014, 7:51am Report to Moderator

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It'll never happen.

Like it or not, upstate needs LI/NYC to contribute to the social welfare of the rest of the state.  We can't survive without their tax dollars.


We are advised NOT to judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.   Funny how that works.
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Box A Rox
February 18, 2014, 7:52am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from rpforpres
What a great idea : )  

http://www.newamsterdamny.org/


Quoted Text
Before you jump into something with out the full financial cost, read this:
In fiscal 2010, the Upstate region generated less than 28 percent of the state’s taxes
and other non-federal revenues.
By contrast, Upstate received a much larger share of state-funded expenditures,
42 percent.


(Upstate is the 'welfare state', NYC is the money generator.)

The state’s largest source of non-federal revenue, the personal income tax, is particularly
concentrated Downstate. New York City and its suburbs represent 64 percent of state residents,
but around 80 percent of the income tax.


http://www.rockinst.org/observations/wardr/2011-12-giving_getting.aspx


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
February 18, 2014, 8:14am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox




(Upstate is the 'welfare state', NYC is the money generator.)

The state’s largest source of non-federal revenue, the personal income tax, is particularly
concentrated Downstate. New York City and its suburbs represent 64 percent of state residents,
but around 80 percent of the income tax.


http://www.rockinst.org/observations/wardr/2011-12-giving_getting.aspx


What percentage of the wealth?  


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HarryP
February 18, 2014, 8:39am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


What percentage of the wealth?  


Not much, it's all in offshore accounts, hidden from the tax man.  Rich men aren't necessarily stupid.



We are advised NOT to judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.   Funny how that works.
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Box A Rox
February 18, 2014, 9:23am Report to Moderator

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If NYC was a country...
Quoted Text
Consider:   If New York were its own country,
~ its army, the New York City Police Department, would be the twentieth-best-funded army in
the world, just behind Greece and just ahead of North Korea.
~ Its GDP, $413.9 billion, would be the seventeenth largest, just behind the Russian Federation
and just ahead of Switzerland.
~ With more than 8 million residents, it would be more populous than Ireland, Switzerland, or
New Zealand; roughly half the countries in the Middle East (including Israel); most of the former
republics of the Soviet Union; and all the Scandinavian countries besides Sweden.


Upstate needs NYC much more than NYC needs Upstate!


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
February 18, 2014, 10:48am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox
If NYC was a country...


Upstate needs NYC much more than NYC needs Upstate!


I wonder what the value is of NYC if you subtract the revenue generated from stock trading on Wall St?  What does NYC produce that's if value to upstate - besides paper currency from stock profits and bank interst?


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Box A Rox
February 18, 2014, 11:11am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


I wonder what the value is of NYC if you subtract the revenue generated from stock trading on Wall St?  What does NYC produce that's if value to upstate - besides paper currency from stock profits and bank interst?


What does NYC Produce that's of value to upstate???
About $12 Billion dollars in state spending generated in NYC and spent upstate.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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HarryP
February 18, 2014, 11:42am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


What does NYC produce that's if value to upstate


Obscene bridge tolls?


We are advised NOT to judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics.   Funny how that works.
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CICERO
February 18, 2014, 12:33pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


What does NYC Produce that's of value to upstate???
About $12 Billion dollars in state spending generated in NYC and spent upstate.


I get that...the money they spend isn't generated by anything they produce, it's generated by pushing paper.  Whether it's stockbrokers, hedge fund managers, or bankers.  The rest of the city services that paper wealth generated by buying and selling paper.  For example GE produces turbines in upstate Ny, and the brokers on Wall St earn a living from buying and selling GE stock based on GE's real production.  The money earned off stock trades produced nothing, the people that engineered and built the turbines are productive.

If upstate governed themselves, they could reduce tax rates, deregulate, and attract productive businesses(like GE), and generate tax revenue to make up for whatever is lost from downstate.


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Madam X
February 18, 2014, 12:42pm Report to Moderator
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We would do better in the long run. NYC needs upstate as a dump for their problem residents. What, exactly, does the phrase "up the river" bring to mind? Does anyone think that all the welfare dollars that pour into Schenectady are a boon to us? Show all your work, please. I love NYC, but I could still visit if it belonged to another state. We would get rid of the downstate politicians, that would be the biggest plus.
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Shadow
February 18, 2014, 12:56pm Report to Moderator
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Without the water that upstate supplies to NYC they would have to drink sea water.
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Box A Rox
February 18, 2014, 12:58pm Report to Moderator

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Upstate prisons funded by downstate taxes giving upstaters jobs.  
Albany's State University system, (JOBS) much of it paid for by downstate taxes.
Upstate parks and recreation jobs, paid for by downstate taxes.
Look at the number of NY State workers in Albany, all drawing a check from taxes collected downstate.

NYC is a jobs generator for upstate in general, and the capitol district specifically.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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BuckStrider
February 18, 2014, 1:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


I get that...the money they spend isn't generated by anything they produce, it's generated by pushing paper.  Whether it's stockbrokers, hedge fund managers, or bankers.  The rest of the city services that paper wealth generated by buying and selling paper.  For example GE produces turbines in upstate Ny, and the brokers on Wall St earn a living from buying and selling GE stock based on GE's real production.  The money earned off stock trades produced nothing, the people that engineered and built the turbines are productive.

If upstate governed themselves, they could reduce tax rates, deregulate, and attract productive businesses(like GE), and generate tax revenue to make up for whatever is lost from downstate.


NYC also needs water and power, both of which will also come from upstate.

NYS would do just fine without NYC.





"Approval ratings go up and down for various reasons... An example is the high post 911 support for
GWB even though he could be said to be responsible for the event." --- Box A Rox '9/11 Truther'

Melania is a bimbo... she is there to look at, not to listen to. --- Box A Rox and his 'War on Women'

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Madam X
February 18, 2014, 1:12pm Report to Moderator
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Oh, I forgot, state workers up here don't pay any taxes. And none of us pay any property taxes either. As for SUNY, I think it would end up being better run and cheaper, as presently it is a system to provide high paying patronage jobs to connected downstate types, and some upstate ones as well, and to educate China's citizens cheaply.
There are a lot of ways, large and small, that we are being ripped off solely for the benefit of some wealthy mostly downstate politicians and cronies. The Hudson River-Black River Regulating District is one of them. This is not to say that there aren't NYC residents getting ripped off as well.
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