Quoted from senders

does the state get to decide when you 'start', because basically that is what you are saying....

BRAVO BRAVO!!!!!



As a side not.......we are ALL grown up embryos!!

Quoted from CICERO

You're moving the goal posts.  I'm saying a fertilized egg is a human life.  Not a living cell that could turn into a fingernail, eyeball, or spleen.  I asked what the science community believe human life begins.  

What equals a human being - consciousness?

In Vitro fertilization creates human lives by hand selecting of eggs, choosing the eggs with the best chance of success, thawing out some frozen sperm and injecting it into some eggs, and then the eggs are cultured and an embryo is selected for transplant.

Is the moment of  embryo selection for transplant, the exact moment when a human being begins to exist?

Is this instant the exact time when a human actually starts "being" a "human being"?

Are the remaining fertilized eggs that are selected, considered not "being" human yet?

Is the destruction of the remaining fertilized eggs that were created at approximately the same time as the selected participant, really that much different than in natural selection being interfered with, by use of chemicals or physical blockage like condoms or diaphragms.

The moment of conception is not that easy to pin down when making laboratory humans.

Embryo selection: Embryo quality

Laboratories have developed grading methods to judge oocyte and embryo quality. In order to optimise pregnancy rates, there is significant evidence that a morphological scoring system is the best strategy for the selection of embryos. Since 2009 where the first time-lapse microscopy system for IVF was approved for clinical use, morphokinetic scoring systems has shown to improve to pregnancy rates further.



Embryo transfer: Embryo transfer

Embryos are failed by the embryologist based on the amount of cells, evenness of growth and degree of fragmentation. The number to be transferred depends on the number available, the age of the woman and other health and diagnostic factors. In countries such as Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, a maximum of two embryos are transferred except in unusual circumstances. In the UK and according to HFEA regulations, a woman over 40 may have up to three embryos transferred, whereas in the USA, younger women may have many embryos transferred based on individual fertility diagnosis. Most clinics and country regulatory bodies seek to minimise the risk of pregnancies carrying multiples, as it is not uncommon for more implantations to take than desired. The embryos judged to be the "best" are transferred to the patient's uterus through a thin, plastic catheter, which goes through her girl private and cervix. Several embryos may be passed into the uterus to improve chances of implantation and pregnancy.

Quoted from CICERO

So please, show me again where science defines a skin cell as human life.  .

Human Life?  Yes a skin cell is "human' we both agree, and it is alive we agree again.  
Every cell in our body is HUMAN LIFE.  
A skin cell is NOT a Human Being.  Neither is a Human Zygote.  

Quoted from Box A Rox

Human Life?  Yes a skin cell is "human' we both agree, and it is alive we agree again.  
Every cell in our body is HUMAN LIFE.  
A skin cell is NOT a Human Being.  Neither is a Human Zygote.  

Do we agree that a human skin cell doesn't exist without the human zygote?

Quoted from CICERO

Do we agree that a human skin cell doesn't exist without the human zygote?

The zygote doesn't exist with out human skin cells.    

Cissy, why play with words.  A zygote is not a human being.  It may become one some day
but it isn't a human being at conception.  Again we both agree but you persist.  

found this explanation to be quite interesting:

Quoted Text

Definition:
After a female egg is fertilized, the resulting one-celled organism becomes known as a zygote. Once this has occurred,
the zygote begins a two-week period of rapid cell division and will eventually become an embryo. The zygote divides
through a process known as mitosis, in which each cell doubles by dividing into two cells. This two-week stage is
known as the germinal period of development and covers the time of conception to the implantation of the embryo in the uterus.

In most cases, each male and female sex cell contain 23 chromosomes. When these two haploid cells join, they form
a single diploid cell that contains a total of 46 chromosomes. The zygote begins a journey down the fallopian tube to
the uterus where it must implant in the lining in order to obtain the nourishment it needs to grow and survive.

How Long Does the Zygote Phase Last?
The period of the zygote lasts for about four days. Around the fifth day, the mass of cells becomes known as a blastocyst.
The germinal period will last for fourteen days, after which the embryonic period will begin. The second period of
development lasts from two weeks after conception through the eighth week, during which time the organism is known
as an embryo. At the ninth week post-conception, the fetal period begins. From this point until birth, the organism will be known as a fetus.

Researchers estimate that nearly 60 percent of all naturally occurring conceptions fail because the zygote never becomes properly implanted in the uterus.

Quoted from Box A Rox

The zygote doesn't exist with out human skin cells.    

Cissy, why play with words.  A zygote is not a human being.  It may become one some day
but it isn't a human being at conception.  Again we both agree but you persist.  

I never said human being, I said human life. You keep on moving the goal posts.  You still never cited science calling every human cell as human life.  You are usually good at copying and pasting.  

All other cells come from the fertilized egg.  Even science knows this, that is why they need stem cells from embryos.

The zygote will not possibly develop into a human being, it will always be a human being and never a single human cell like skin or spleen.  Sure, when left alone, and through natural selection, it may self terminate, and the human life may never fully develop.  Or, neonatal doctors can intervene and assist the human life reach its full development.  But a zygote when allowed to fully develop certainly would never develop into a toenail.

Quoted from CICERO

I never said human being, I said human life. You keep on moving the goal posts.  You still never cited science calling every human cell as human life.  You are usually good at copying and pasting.  

All other cells come from the fertilized egg.  Even science knows this, that is why they need stem cells from embryos.

The zygote will not possibly develop into a human being, it will always be a human being and never a single human cell like skin or spleen.  Sure, when left alone, and through natural selection, it may self terminate, and the human life may never fully develop.  Or, neonatal doctors can intervene and assist the human life reach its full development.  But a zygote when allowed to fully develop certainly would never develop into a toenail.

What is the difference between what you post and what I post...
We both agree that it is possible for a zygote to develop into a human being.  (even though most of them don't)
We both agree that a zygote isNOT a human being.  
Yet you persist

Quoted from Box A Rox

What is the difference between what you post and what I post...
We both agree that it is possible for a zygote to develop into a human being.  (even though most of them don't)
We both agree that a zygote isNOT a human being.  
Yet you persist

We don't agree.  You believe a human zygote is the same as a skin cell.(even though a zygote never developed into a skin cell).  And you don't believe a zygote is a separate life, unique from the mother and father.  You continue to compare a zygote to all other cells in the woman's body, even though it does not match the woman's DNA.  You are fixated on the word human being, and use some sort of flawed logic that since zygotes do not fully develop due to natural selection, that all zygotes can be terminated and you are not ending a human life.  

When does a human life become a human being?  

Quoted from Libertarian4life

Embryo selection: Embryo quality

Laboratories have developed grading methods to judge oocyte and embryo quality. In order to optimise pregnancy rates, there is significant evidence that a morphological scoring system is the best strategy for the selection of embryos. Since 2009 where the first time-lapse microscopy system for IVF was approved for clinical use, morphokinetic scoring systems has shown to improve to pregnancy rates further.



Embryo transfer: Embryo transfer

Embryos are failed by the embryologist based on the amount of cells, evenness of growth and degree of fragmentation. The number to be transferred depends on the number available, the age of the woman and other health and diagnostic factors. In countries such as Canada, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, a maximum of two embryos are transferred except in unusual circumstances. In the UK and according to HFEA regulations, a woman over 40 may have up to three embryos transferred, whereas in the USA, younger women may have many embryos transferred based on individual fertility diagnosis. Most clinics and country regulatory bodies seek to minimise the risk of pregnancies carrying multiples, as it is not uncommon for more implantations to take than desired. The embryos judged to be the "best" are transferred to the patient's uterus through a thin, plastic catheter, which goes through her girl private and cervix. Several embryos may be passed into the uterus to improve chances of implantation and pregnancy.

This is just way to creepy for me!!  

Quoted from CICERO

We don't agree.
You believe a human zygote is the same as a skin cell.
(even though a zygote never developed into a skin cell).

No Cicero... you are confused.  Please post where I said "a human zygote is the same as a skin cell."
I didn't post that and you know it.

Quoted from CICERO

  And you don't believe a zygote is a separate life, unique from the mother and father.    

Again, Cicero is confused.  I never said that.  
Please post where I said "don't believe a zygote is a separate life, unique from the mother and father. "
Please show where I posted that.

Quoted from CICERO

You continue to compare a zygote to all other cells in the woman's body,
even though it does not match the woman's DNA.    
  

Still Cicero is confused (again).
I never posted that "a zygote is the exact DNA as the mom"...  and of course I don't believe
that.  
Please post where I stated that a zygote is the same DNA as the mom".  

Quoted from CICERO

You are fixated on the word human being, and use some sort of flawed logic that since zygotes do
not fully develop due to natural selection, that all zygotes can be terminated and you are not ending a
human life.  

Cicero is yet again Confused... I never posted and don't believe that "all zygotes can be terminated and that
you are not ending a human life.
Cissy is posting his interpretation of what I posted AS IF I POSTED IT MYSELF.  He's done this often and
seems incapable of posting with out it.