but they have to follow the government regulated testing......duh!
Did they for agent orange senders? Got a link???
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
A war against an implacable enemy. One who lives among the population. And who hides in the terrain. Four decades before our involvement in Afghanistan, America had encountered a similar foe in the jungles of Vietnam. It desperately needed some way of countering the enemy’s ability to hide from its guns and bombs while living off the land.
Why Agent Orange? From 1961 to 1971 (as shown in the Chicago Tribune chart, left), the US government sprayed some 20 million gallons of herbicides and defoliants over vast areas of South Vietnam (and to a lesser extent in Laos, Cambodia, and even, marginally, North Vietnam), in “Operation Trail Dust.” Some 95% of the herbicides were sprayed by the US Air Force flying C-123s as part of “Operation Ranch Hand.” Fitted with specially developed spray tanks with a capacity of 1000 gallons of herbicide, the planes typically sprayed a 14 kilometer (8.5 mile) swath of land in about 4 ½ minutes. The remaining 5% were sprayed by backpacks, hand, helicopters and trucks around US military installations by the US Army Chemical Corps and allied forces. The herbicides sprayed were up to 50 times the concentration that would have been used for normal agricultural use.
The most common herbicide used was Herbicide Orange, more commonly referred to as “Agent Orange,” a fifty-fifty mixture of the two herbicides 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. The other most common color-coded chemicals used were Agent Blue, primarily used against food crops, and Agent White.
What was the rationale for the program? When President Kennedy came into office in January 1961 the question of what to do in Vietnam was already brewing. By May of 1961 the US objectives in Vietnam were to "prevent communist domination of South Vietnam; to create a viable and increasingly democratic society, and to initiate, on an accelerated basis, a series of mutually supporting actions of a military, political, economic, psychological, and covert character to achieve this objective."
The US helped South Vietnam to develop the Combat Development and Test Center in order to identify which military tactics and weapons could be used against the guerilla struggle they were facing. Among the prime competitive advantages of the enemy was their ability to hide in the forest cover while living off the land, so a herbicide powerful enough to deny the North Vietnam Army (NVA) and the anti-government forces in the South (the National Liberation Front or Viet Cong) these assets became very appealing. By July 1961 the idea of using herbicides to better control the border areas had developed to the point of coordinating a defoliation test and the necessary herbicides (Dinoxol) were shipped to South Vietnam. The first testing of the herbicides occurred on August 10, 1961 in Kontom province. Two weeks later a second test run took place along highway 13 north of Saigon.
The defoliation program started out small and nearly ended before it began as the Department of Defense, the State Department and the government of South Vietnam debated its efficacy. However, by November 1961 President Kennedy agreed with his advisors that the US should 'participate in a selective and carefully controlled joint program of defoliant operations in Vietnam starting with the clearance of key routes and proceed thereafter to food denial only if the most careful basis of resettlement and alternative food supply has been created." The first official Operation Ranch Hand mission took place on January 13, 1962 along highway 15 using C-123 aircraft
As the American involvement in Vietnam escalated so did the use of herbicides, Operation Ranch Hand was expanded to include parts of southern and eastern Laos in December 1965. The herbicide program reached its peak in 1967 when over a million and a half acres were sprayed.
While much of the earlier hesitancy to conduct the herbicide program revolved around concerns of its efficacy, there were also concerns in Washington about how the use of chemical herbicides would be perceived in the world community and how the North Vietnamese government would use the herbicide program as a propaganda tool. None the less, Secretary of State Dean Rusk assured President Kennedy that the use of herbicides was an acceptable war tactic and did not violate international law. The herbicides were seen by the US government as merely a defoliant akin to those in US domestic use, even if many times the original strength. Unlike mustard gas, Agent Orange and the other herbicides were targeted against trees and crops, not humans. The environmental movement had not yet begun; Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring had only been published in 1962 (helping to get the insecticide DDT banned in 1972); and the first Earth Day was years away. It was natural, in the context of the early 1960s, that the use of almost any herbicide would be viewed as fair game in war. Especially as early on in the program it is not likley that the US government knew that dioxin was contaminanting the herbicides that contained 2,4,5-T.
LOOK,,,,STUFF YOU DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL IT HAPPENED....the future came and banned the sh!t.....
However, as Operation Ranch Hand expanded it was not only the enemy that was inconvenienced. The Vietnamese peasants whose hearts and minds the US was trying to win tended to take offense at the destruction of their crops and the laying waste of the countryside, as a RAND study would find in 1967.
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
A war against an implacable enemy. One who lives among the population. And who hides in the terrain. Four decades before our involvement in Afghanistan, America had encountered a similar foe in the jungles of Vietnam. It desperately needed some way of countering the enemy’s ability to hide from its guns and bombs while living off the land.
Why Agent Orange? From 1961 to 1971 (as shown in the Chicago Tribune chart, left), the US government sprayed some 20 million gallons of herbicides and defoliants over vast areas of South Vietnam (and to a lesser extent in Laos, Cambodia, and even, marginally, North Vietnam), in “Operation Trail Dust.” Some 95% of the herbicides were sprayed by the US Air Force flying C-123s as part of “Operation Ranch Hand.” Fitted with specially developed spray tanks with a capacity of 1000 gallons of herbicide, the planes typically sprayed a 14 kilometer (8.5 mile) swath of land in about 4 ½ minutes. The remaining 5% were sprayed by backpacks, hand, helicopters and trucks around US military installations by the US Army Chemical Corps and allied forces. The herbicides sprayed were up to 50 times the concentration that would have been used for normal agricultural use.
The most common herbicide used was Herbicide Orange, more commonly referred to as “Agent Orange,” a fifty-fifty mixture of the two herbicides 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T. The other most common color-coded chemicals used were Agent Blue, primarily used against food crops, and Agent White.
What was the rationale for the program? When President Kennedy came into office in January 1961 the question of what to do in Vietnam was already brewing. By May of 1961 the US objectives in Vietnam were to "prevent communist domination of South Vietnam; to create a viable and increasingly democratic society, and to initiate, on an accelerated basis, a series of mutually supporting actions of a military, political, economic, psychological, and covert character to achieve this objective."
The US helped South Vietnam to develop the Combat Development and Test Center in order to identify which military tactics and weapons could be used against the guerilla struggle they were facing. Among the prime competitive advantages of the enemy was their ability to hide in the forest cover while living off the land, so a herbicide powerful enough to deny the North Vietnam Army (NVA) and the anti-government forces in the South (the National Liberation Front or Viet Cong) these assets became very appealing. By July 1961 the idea of using herbicides to better control the border areas had developed to the point of coordinating a defoliation test and the necessary herbicides (Dinoxol) were shipped to South Vietnam. The first testing of the herbicides occurred on August 10, 1961 in Kontom province. Two weeks later a second test run took place along highway 13 north of Saigon.
The defoliation program started out small and nearly ended before it began as the Department of Defense, the State Department and the government of South Vietnam debated its efficacy. However, by November 1961 President Kennedy agreed with his advisors that the US should 'participate in a selective and carefully controlled joint program of defoliant operations in Vietnam starting with the clearance of key routes and proceed thereafter to food denial only if the most careful basis of resettlement and alternative food supply has been created." The first official Operation Ranch Hand mission took place on January 13, 1962 along highway 15 using C-123 aircraft
As the American involvement in Vietnam escalated so did the use of herbicides, Operation Ranch Hand was expanded to include parts of southern and eastern Laos in December 1965. The herbicide program reached its peak in 1967 when over a million and a half acres were sprayed.
While much of the earlier hesitancy to conduct the herbicide program revolved around concerns of its efficacy, there were also concerns in Washington about how the use of chemical herbicides would be perceived in the world community and how the North Vietnamese government would use the herbicide program as a propaganda tool. None the less, Secretary of State Dean Rusk assured President Kennedy that the use of herbicides was an acceptable war tactic and did not violate international law. The herbicides were seen by the US government as merely a defoliant akin to those in US domestic use, even if many times the original strength. Unlike mustard gas, Agent Orange and the other herbicides were targeted against trees and crops, not humans. The environmental movement had not yet begun; Rachel Carson’s Silent Spring had only been published in 1962 (helping to get the insecticide DDT banned in 1972); and the first Earth Day was years away. It was natural, in the context of the early 1960s, that the use of almost any herbicide would be viewed as fair game in war. Especially as early on in the program it is not likley that the US government knew that dioxin was contaminanting the herbicides that contained 2,4,5-T. LOOK,,,,STUFF YOU DIDN'T KNOW UNTIL IT HAPPENED....the future came and banned the sh!t..... However, as Operation Ranch Hand expanded it was not only the enemy that was inconvenienced. The Vietnamese peasants whose hearts and minds the US was trying to win tended to take offense at the destruction of their crops and the laying waste of the countryside, as a RAND study would find in 1967.
YADDA YADDA YADDA... Lots of words, but nothing to back up your claim... So... In regards to your posts:
but they have to follow the government regulated testing......duh!
"But they had to follow the govt regulated testing"...for agent orange Do you have a link for those govt regulated testing??? Or are you just talking through your butt as usual?
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Discovery of herbicides and defoliants and first use in war[edit] Several herbicides were discovered as part of efforts by the US and the British to develop herbicidal weapons for use during WWII. These included 2,4-D (2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid), 2,4,5-T (coded LN-14, and also known as trioxone), MCPA (2-methyl-4-chlorophenoxyacetic acid, 1414B and 1414A, recoded LN-8 and LN-32), and isopropyl phenylcarbamate (1313, recoded LN-33).[38]
In 1943, the U.S. Department of the Army contracted the University of Chicago to study the effects of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T on cereal grains (including rice) and broadleaf crops. From these studies arose the concept of using aerial applications of herbicides to destroy enemy crops to disrupt their food supply. In early 1945, the U.S. Army ran tests of various 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T mixtures at the Bushnell Army Airfield in Florida, which is now listed as a Formerly Used Defense Site (FUDS). As a result, the U.S. began a full-scale production of 2,4-D and 2,4,5-T and would have used it against Japan in 1946 during Operation Downfall if the war had continued.[39][40]
By the end of the war, the relationship between the two countries was well established. In the years after the war, the U.S. tested 1100 compounds and field trials of the more promising ones were done at British stations in India and Australia, to establish their effects in tropical conditions, as well as at the U.S.'s testing ground in Florida.[38]
Between 1950 and 1952, for example, trials were conducted in Tanganyika, at Kikore and Stunyansa, to test arboricides and defoliants under tropical conditions. The chemicals involved were 2,4-D, 2,4,5-T, and endothal (3,6-endoxohexahydrophthalic acid). During 1952/53, the unit supervised the aerial spraying of 2,4,5-T over the Waturi peninsula in Kenya to assess the value of defoliants in the eradication of tsetse fly.[38]
British General Sir Gerald Templer authorized the use of 2,4,5-T and 2,4-D (Agent Orange) throughout the Malayan Emergency to destroy bushes, trees, and vegetation in order to deprive the insurgents of cover. Later, the Americans used Agent Orange during the Vietnam War. During the Malayan Emergency, Britain was the first nation to employ the use of herbicides and defoliants to destroy bushes, trees, and vegetation to deprive insurgents of cover and targeting food crops as part of a starvation campaign in the early 1950s. A detailed account of how the British experimented with the spraying of herbicides was written by two scientists, E.K. Woodford of Agricultural Research Council's Unit of Experimental Agronomy and H.G.H. Kearns of the University of Bristol.[38]
After the Malayan conflict ended in 1960, the U.S. considered the British precedent in deciding that the use of defoliants was a legal tactic of warfare. Secretary of State Dean Rusk advised President John F. Kennedy that the British had established a precedent for warfare with herbicides in Malaya.[3]
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Your post deals with tests of agent orange type herbicides, EFFECTIVENESS ON VEGITATION.
So that is the testing you posted about??? Quoted from senders but they have to follow the government regulated testing......duh!
The Govt tests on herbicide effectiveness on vegetation???
(See? Senders is posting through his/her butt again)
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Now Senders is posting about "CHEMICAL WEAPONS" Didn't see any agent orange there, did you senders?
So... you just made up the part about the Govt testing agent orange... and now you're trying to bs your way out of your lie.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The herbicides sprayed were up to 50 times the concentration that would have been used for normal agricultural use.
if they knew the concentration needed for 'normal agricultural use' then it would stand to reason (you seem to get off the bus here) they would know the abnormals....
agriculture is greatly regulated throughout American history
Quoted Text
In 1887, the Hatch Act provided for the federal funding of agricultural experiment stations in each state. The Smith-Lever Act of 1914 then funded cooperative extension services in each state to teach agriculture, home economics, and other subjects to the public. With these and similar provisions, the USDA reached out to every county of every state.
During the Great Depression, farming remained a common way of life for millions of Americans. The Department of Agriculture was crucial[citation needed] to providing concerned persons with the assistance that they needed to make it through this difficult period, helping to ensure that food continued to be produced and distributed to those who needed it, assisting with loans for small landowners, and contributing to the education of the rural youth.
Today, many of the programs concerned with the distribution of food and nutrition to people of America and providing nourishment as well as nutrition education to those in need are run and operated under the USDA Food and Nutrition Service. Activities in this program include the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, which provides healthy food to over 40 million low-income and homeless people each month.[4] USDA is a member of the United States Interagency Council on Homelessness,[5] where it is committed to working with other agencies to ensure these mainstream benefits are accessed by those experiencing homelessness.
The USDA also is concerned with assisting farmers and food producers with the sale of crops and food on both the domestic and world markets. It plays a role in overseas aid programs by providing surplus foods to developing countries. This aid can go through USAID, foreign governments, international bodies such as World Food Program, or approved nonprofits. The Agricultural Act of 1949, section 416 (b) and Agricultural Trade Development and Assistance Act of 1954, also known as Food for Peace, provides the legal basis of such actions. The USDA is a partner of the World Cocoa Foundation.
the government always finds ways to make new war or shall I say to make war anew.........you're not stupid
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Stunned by his son’s death, Admiral Elmo Zumwalt Jr. investigated the available studies and concluded, in a comprehensive 1990 report to the Department of Veterans Affairs, that there actually was sufficient scientific evidence to link various cancers and birth defects with dioxin. But, he found, this information had been deliberately concealed by federal officials.
“The flawed scientific studies and manipulated conclusions are not only unduly denying justice to Vietnam veterans suffering from exposure to Agent Orange," Zumwalt said in a quote circulated in a US Veterans Dispatch report in November 1990. "They are now standing in the way of a full disclosure to the American people of the likely health effects of exposure to toxic dioxins." http://patch.com/new-jersey/mahwah/uncle-sams-dioxin-cover-up
in medicine we call it an 'off-label use'.......but you wouldn't understand because you refuse to......
again, you missed your bus
Hey! I didn't make the statement... YOU DID! Now you're making excuses to cover your lie.
Quoted Text
Quoted from senders but they have to follow the government regulated testing......duh!
Duh is right!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
The military bought the chemical from DOW. Maybe they should have asked for the MSDS for it before purchasing it and dropping it on the heads of humans.
Logged
