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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 11:12am Report to Moderator

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Quoted Text
Suicide Bigger Threat for Police Than Criminals

By ALISON LEIGH COWAN
Published: April 8, 2008
NORWALK, Conn. — When Matthew Morelli, a 38-year-old police officer, was found slumped in a secluded parking lot with an AK-47 rifle on March 21, state and local authorities spent two days looking for a suspect, with helicopters and police dogs scouring the neighborhood, where witnesses reported hearing multiple shots. The culprit turned out to be a stealthy if surprisingly familiar cop killer: suicide.

“We’re all numb,” said William Curwen, the president of Norwalk’s police union, speaking for many at Officer Morelli’s wake almost a week later.

Within one recent week, a 35-year-old New York State trooper fatally shot himself with his service pistol after learning that he might be disciplined for minor misconduct, and a New York City police officer was found dead in her home in Upper Manhattan, propped up in bed with the Glock pistol that delivered the fatal shot in one hand, a beer can in the other. And the Los Angeles Police Department, which has counted one or two suicides annually in recent years, presented a report last month calling for online prevention programs for all employees, additional training for supervisors, and psychologists at roll calls to discuss the topic with officers.

While line-of-duty deaths grab the public’s attention, experts say that law enforcement officers more often — perhaps two or three times more often — die by their own hands. Comparing suicide rates within law enforcement with those in the general population is difficult because statistics are kept by different agencies and it is hard to account for demographics. Also, the general population does not undergo the extensive psychological and physical screening most officers undergo when they are hired, making comparisons questionable. But many who have studied the phenomenon agree that the stress of the job and easy access to weapons can contribute to a higher risk for suicide.

“We’re losing a police officer every 19 or 20 hours of self-inflicted wounds,” said Robert E. Douglas Jr., a former Baltimore police officer and chaplain who runs the National Police Suicide Foundation in Maryland. “It is a big wow. It’s so sad because what you see in Connecticut goes on all the time.”

Mr. Douglas estimates that 400 to 450 officers kill themselves each year, compared with 150 to 200 who die in the line of duty. In Norwalk, at least five officers besides Officer Morelli have committed suicide since 1974; four officers have been killed in the line of duty since the department was established in 1913, the most recent ones in 1982 and 1971.

Some law enforcement agencies have beefed up prevention programs after seeing troubling spikes in suicides within their ranks. The California Highway Patrol expanded peer counseling and suicide-related training after losing 10 of its roughly 7,900 officers to suicide in 2005 and 2006; last year, said Capt. Susan Coutts of the employee assistance unit, “we had one.” The Maryland State Police saw a cluster of suicides, including two from the same barracks, in the 1990s, and initiated programs to identify officers at high risk, along with mandatory psychological consultations and firearms reorientation for officers involved in fatal shootings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/08/nyregion/08suicide.html?_r=0


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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 11:19am Report to Moderator

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POLICE SUICIDE IS AN ALARMING PROBLEM RARELY DISCUSSED PUBLICLY
by Claude Lewis, The Philadelphia Inquirer

Stress is taking its toll on police officers throughout the nation, though it is a problem that many departments are loath to talk about publicly. And that includes Philadelphia's.

"It's difficult to put your arms around the problem, when so few people are willing to talk about it," said Councilman Michael Nutter. "Everyone knows it's a serious problem, but not many will discuss it."

New York City has a different attitude. Last week, police brass became so alarmed at the number of suicides among officers that it set in motion a new program to recruit and train cops as peer counselors.

In a police force of more than 30,000, suicides among officers have been on the rise. Fourteen uniformed men killed themselves last year. Others atempted suicide but were thwarted by alert officers who intervened in time.

A recent study revealed that New York City officers kill themselves at a rate of 29 per 100,000 a year. The rate of suicide in the general population is 12 per 100,000. Most of the victims are young males with no record of misconduct who shoot themselves while off duty.

Nationally, twice as many cops - about 300 annually - commit suicide as are killed in the line of duty, according to a study by the National Association of Police Chiefs.

In Philadelphia, officers with probIems sometimes receive help from the Employee Assistance Program within the department. Their concerns range from stress on the job to personal dilemmas that sometimes become overwhelming.

Michael Broader, a clinical psychologist, has been working with the EAP since July of this year. He says that "the dynamics of the job" sometimes lead officers to take their own lives. The fact that officers have a weapon strapped at their waist at all times also plays a role.

Alcohol is sometimes a factor, along with troubled marriages or relationships. Many policemen live with added pressure from families who complain that they "never have a day off."

It's difficult in Philadelphia to determine just why cops take their own lives, or how many, due to the state's confidentiality law. In addition, the police deny they keep such statistics.

Capt. Gus Carre, the commanding officer at EAP, did say stress among police officers is not unusual. "It's a difficult job made more difficult by the individuals that officers must deal with on a daily basis."

Many police officers see a steady diet of the grim underside of life that most people rarely see.

They are usually first at the scene when babies are killed, when wives are battered, when addicts die of an overdose or when accidents kill or maim citizens. It all takes its toll on even the most hard-nosed officers.

A few years ago in Northeast Philadelphia, an officer sat with his gun pressed to his, head for four hours. Finally, he was talked into putting his weapon down.

Unfortunately, not every situation is as easily resolved. Several times last year, Philadelphia officers killed themselves before help arrived.

Many officers here and throughout the nation refuse to seek needed assistance because they fear it will result in their being labeled "weak."

Police officers are almost always high on the list of suicide groups," says Mort Feldman, vice president of the chiefs' group. Feldman was a policeman in Florida for 30 years. "This is a national concern," he said in an interview. "What is needed is to separate Employee Assistance Programs from the police department. A liaison should be established between cops and mental health associations.

"Policemen are often reluctant to tell people in the chain of command they're having problems because they fear their careers will be destroyed. So they make the mistake of trying to solve their problems quietly and that often leads to alcohol or substance abuse or suicide."

Many suicides by police go unreported to avoid stigmatizing families and to allow them to collect insurance claims and other compensation.

Another officer admitted he's seen reports that list suicides under a broad classification of "accidental discharge of a weapon" that was anything but accidental.

Feldman says some police officers trade their wives and kids for the job: "If they're even questioned during an investigation, some officers who are completely clean feel betrayed by the job.... Occasionally, such an individual, feeling betrayed by his fellow officers, will kill himself because he feels he's been abandoned."

Feldman said his organization didn't keep statistics on police suicides by city "because I know we wouldn't be given the right numbers."

Although Philadelphia police refused to share their numbers, they are well aware how many officers kill themselves every year. They must think that hiding the problem will make it go away, but all that does is suggest that police suicides may be even more widespread than most people think.

http://www.tearsofacop.com/police/articles/lewis.html


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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 11:37am Report to Moderator

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Where are you box?  Where are your tears for these fine police officers that took their own lives with a gun?  Don't you want to protect these government servants from an unnecessary suicide by taking away their guns?  Remember, guns cause suicide, if they didn't have access to these guns they would probably still be with us today.  Let's start disarming the police to protect them from unnecessary gun deaths.


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Libertarian4life
January 1, 2013, 11:58am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO
Where are you box?  Where are your tears for these fine police officers that took their own lives with a gun?  Don't you want to protect these government servants from an unnecessary suicide by taking away their guns?  Remember, guns cause suicide, if they didn't have access to these guns they would probably still be with us today.  Let's start disarming the police to protect them from unnecessary gun deaths.



Once again, cops themselves are there own worst enemies, just like the military.

More law enforcement officers today commit suicide than are killed by criminals.


In 2000, 150 officers died in the line of duty and 418 committed suicide.  That is an outrageously,
ridiculous statistic that should be screaming out to all of us. We’re not addressing this nearly enough.
That includes you, me and every single one of us on this job. The actual number of police suicides
is believed to be much higher too. The biggest factors in the skewed statistics are believed to be poor
accounting and the fact that the people who respond to suicides are us, and we try to steer the cause
of death away from suicide to protect our brother or sister officer’s family.                      
NJ Lawman  

http://www.srrtraining.com/PoliceSuicideAwareness.html

Almost half of the 150 line of duty deaths are a result of gunfire and almost 40% are from vehicle deaths.

Suicide rates are 250% compared to the line of duty deaths.




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Box A Rox
January 1, 2013, 4:35pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life



Once again, cops themselves are there own worst enemies, just like the military.

More law enforcement officers today commit suicide than are killed by criminals.


In 2000, 150 officers died in the line of duty and 418 committed suicide.  That is an outrageously,
ridiculous statistic that should be screaming out to all of us. We’re not addressing this nearly enough.
That includes you, me and every single one of us on this job. The actual number of police suicides
is believed to be much higher too. The biggest factors in the skewed statistics are believed to be poor
accounting and the fact that the people who respond to suicides are us, and we try to steer the cause
of death away from suicide to protect our brother or sister officer’s family.                      
J Lawman  
http://www.srrtraining.com/PoliceSuicideAwareness.html
Almost half of the 150 line of duty deaths are a result of gunfire and almost 40% are from vehicle deaths.
Suicide rates are 250% compared to the line of duty deaths.



Cicero must be overjoyed at this news.  His hate for the police is legend on this board.  I'm sure
if Cic could, he'd hand a suicidal police officer a gun or a rope or some poison.

Great news for Cic... A terrible tragedy for the rest of America.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Henry
January 1, 2013, 4:41pm Report to Moderator

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Another reason not to put your safety in their hands, if they don't give a crap about themself they surely don't give a crap about a stranger


"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

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Libertarian4life
January 1, 2013, 4:42pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


Cicero must be overjoyed at this news.  His hate for the police is legend on this board.  I'm sure
if Cic could, he'd hand a suicidal police officer a gun or a rope or some poison.

Great news for Cic... A terrible tragedy for the rest of America.


Why is no one addressing the military or police suicides?

Together they outnumber school shootings by 3500%

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Box A Rox
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Quoted from Henry
Another reason not to put your safety in their hands, if they don't give a crap about themself they surely don't give a crap about a stranger


Yea, I know... Cops Suck!  Cicero feels the same way.  I've known a few Schenectady cops over the years
and a few Glenville cops, as well as NY State police and a Sheriff deputy.  
Those cops were all good men that I would trust and I'm very grateful that they do the job that they do.
There are always a few bad apples in every barrel... and Schdy had it's share, but from your version, and the
way Cicero and L4Life tell it... there are only a few, or no good cops and the majority are bad apples.

I don't see the police as the enemy... you do!



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
January 1, 2013, 5:35pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


Why is no one addressing the military or police suicides?
Together they outnumber school shootings by 3500%



Cicero is 'orgasmic' about that news.  I'm sure he is celebrating their deaths.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 6:50pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


Cicero must be overjoyed at this news.  His hate for the police is legend on this board.  I'm sure
if Cic could, he'd hand a suicidal police officer a gun or a rope or some poison.

Great news for Cic... A terrible tragedy for the rest of America.


C''mon box!  You had no problem politicizing suicide when you were arguing for gun restrictions.  I'm just reporting the facts.  Police commit suicide at a MUCH higher rate than the civilian population, and with government issued GUNS.  I'm not hearing the same argument from you to restrict guns for those that are more likely to kill themselves with them.  

I just think it's hilarious that people like you use something as tragic as suicide to push you anti-gun anti-self defense agenda, but have a double standard when presented with the fact that cops use those same guns you want regulated to kill themselves at a higher rate.  Self inflicted gun shot wounds by police have killed more people than all the school massacres combined.  

What's wrong box, you uncomfortable with that FACT?  You don't want to disarm ALL police because of the actions of the mentally ill?  Gee, just a few days ago, you tried to paint me as uncaring for making the same argument.

Hey bud, keep up the ad hominem attacks.  Since I exposed you for the hypocritical tyrant that you are - that's all ya got!

Government agents need guns - civilians don't.  That's because their lives are more valuable than the average working stiff.  


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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 6:55pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Henry
Another reason not to put your safety in their hands, if they don't give a crap about themself they surely don't give a crap about a stranger


Right!  Statistical proof that the agents in government costumes are more mentally unstable than the general public.  Yet when they approach you car during a traffic stop and walk toward you while un-snapping their gun holster, we are supposed to feel safe that they are mentally stable people.  And they do this because the civilian in the car might cause harm to the officer.  When statistically the opposite is true.


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CICERO
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Quoted from Box A Rox

There are always a few bad apples in every barrel... and Schdy had it's share, but from your version, and the
way Cicero and L4Life tell it... there are only a few, or no good cops and the majority are bad apples.

I don't see the police as the enemy... you do!



There are always a few bad apples in the civilian population that get their hands on guns.  But you argue that those few bad apples require stricter gun controls for EVERYBODY.  You always seem to excuse the bad apples that wear the government costumes, while condemning every civilian gun owner.

I don't see my neighbor that may be a gun owner or future gun owner as the enemy...you do!


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Box A Rox
January 1, 2013, 7:03pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


C''mon box!  You had no problem politicizing suicide when you were arguing for gun restrictions.  I'm just reporting the facts.  Police commit suicide at a MUCH higher rate than the civilian population, and with government issued GUNS.  I'm not hearing the same argument from you to restrict guns for those that are more likely to kill themselves with them.  

I just think it's hilarious that people like you use something as tragic as suicide to push you anti-gun anti-self defense agenda, but have a double standard when presented with the fact that cops use those same guns you want regulated to kill themselves at a higher rate.  Self inflicted gun shot wounds by police have killed more people than all the school massacres combined.  

What's wrong box, you uncomfortable with that FACT?  You don't want to disarm ALL police because of the actions of the mentally ill?  Gee, just a few days ago, you tried to paint me as uncaring for making the same argument.

Hey bud, keep up the ad hominem attacks.  Since I exposed you for the hypocritical tyrant that you are - that's all ya got!

Government agents need guns - civilians don't.  That's because their lives are more valuable than the average working stiff.  


Cic... you consistently get it WRONG when you speak for me, and this is no exception.  
Police in the USA are under a lot of stress.  The job itself is stressful and the attitudes of some Americans
just adds to the stress.
Imagine putting your life on the line, then after almost being killed in the line of duty... some clown
calls you a fascist, a storm trooper, a hit man in a government costume.  

Suicide is a serious problem in all walks of life... and cops are no exception.
Here is some data on the subject by jobs:

Quoted Text
High-skill and high-stakes occupations have elevated suicide rates, according to data compiled
with help from the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health.

19) Natural scientists are 1.28 times more likely to commit suicide than average
18) Pharmacists are 1.29 times more likely to commit suicide
17) Precision woodworkers are 1.3 times more likely to commit suicide
16) Electricians are 1.31 times more likely to commit suicide
15) Heat treating equipment operators are 1.32 times more likely to commit suicide
14) Farm managers are 1.32 times more likely to commit suicide
13) Lathe operators are 1.33 times more likely to commit suicide
12) Lawyers are 1.33 times more likely to commit suicide
11) Electrical equipment assemblers are 1.36 times more likely to commit suicide
10) Real estate sellers are 1.38 times more likely to commit suicide than average
9) Hand molders are 1.39 times more likely to commit suicide
8) Urban planners are 1.43 times more likely to commit suicide
7) Supervisors of heavy construction equipment are 1.46 times more likely to commit suicide
6) Chiropractors are 1.5 times more likely to commit suicide than average
5) Finance workers are 1.51 times more likely to commit suicide
4) Veterinarians are 1.54 times more likely to commit suicide
3) Dentists are 1.67 times more likely to commit suicide
2) Physicians are 1.87 times more likely to commit suicide
1) Marine engineers are 1.89 times more likely to commit suicide


The Business Insider
http://www.businessinsider.com/most-suicidal-occupations-2011-10#


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Box A Rox
January 1, 2013, 7:05pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


There are always a few bad apples in the civilian population that get their hands on guns.  But you argue that those few bad apples require stricter gun controls for EVERYBODY.  You always seem to excuse the bad apples that wear the government costumes, while condemning every civilian gun owner.

I don't see my neighbor that may be a gun owner or future gun owner as the enemy...you do!


I think YOUR NEIGHBORS FEAR YOU WITH A GUN!


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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CICERO
January 1, 2013, 7:09pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Box A Rox


I think YOUR NEIGHBORS FEAR YOU WITH A GUN!


No, that's your own fear.  


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