WOW!!!! i just got around to reading this thread!! Bravo to all of you!!
But I must say......Cic, Henry, Shadow and Liberty have clearly 'won the day'!!!
This thread was a good read...really!!! Good job all of you!!
As if Bumbler were some kind of judge!
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Jesus' instructions were to the individual, not the government. It was meant for self governance, not the moral compass for the state. Jesus never waived sinful behavior as long as the sin was committed while wearing a shied or carrying the flag of a nation.
Just like Jesus never instructed his followers to feed the masses through government and forced collection of taxes. Feeding the poor is everybody's individual responsibility.
Jesus' teachings were for personal salvation, it had nothing to do with the nation state.
So it is your claim that Jesus was anti-government?
I am not a Bible expert, but I have never heard of Jesus declaring taxes to be theft. Just because he didn't name the government in his words, doesn't mean he wasn't talking to everyone, the government included.
Is it your contention that Jesus would be against a group of people, elected by the the population, taking care of the poor and hungry?
Is it your contention that Jesus was against democracy altogether?
It seems to me that Jesus took the stand that personal valuables were meaningless, and that spirit and honesty were true values.
I think he would find complaining of loss of personal valuables, to the government, corporations, or whoever, to be a failure to understand his teachings.
I'm not casting the first stone, I also believe that government taxation is theft by extortion. I just want to know where you stand on the opinions of Jesus.
I have never heard any mention of politics, taxes, or anything similar by Jesus.
~"Render to Caesar what is Caesars..." (Pay your taxes Mitt)
~"it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person (1%) to enter the Kingdom of God!" (Jesus was a 99%er)
~ 'Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. (Jesus pretty much thought that the rich Sucked)
~"Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me."
~"Heal the Sick" (Unlike the Republicans, Jesus didn't exclude those with a pre existing condition)
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
Revolutions aren't rare nor is the pursuit of freedom. Actually, what made the american experiment unique is not that freedom was won........ but that the founders provided a formula...aka the constitution..... for how freedom could be sustained.
HOWEVER.......freedom can be its own worst enemy.
James Madison..... “Liberty may be endangered by the abuses of liberty as well as the abuses of power.”
The risk of freedom is when freedom is achieved. It sometimes leads to a sense of entitlement........, justifying whatever lifestyle choices we want to enjoy.
I think that this country is on the verge of a culture war that has been fueled by the 'entire' political machine....be it dems or reps. They have used americans like pawns in a chess game and we fell for it!
America already has freedoms that the contitution so eloquently states. A revolution would just be to fight to keep those freedoms, since the freedoms already exist! imho
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
I ment it as a compliment to ALL of you. I didn't agree with you, but thought you all did a great job of debating...k? You would all put the lame stream media to shame if you all collectively had your own debate 'squawk box' show!
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
Our Scripture reading this morning is Isaiah 9:2, 6-7: “The people walking in darkness have seen a great light; on those living in the land of the shadow of death a light has dawned… For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this.”
How many of you have a road atlas? Have you ever wondered where we get the phrase “road atlas”? It comes from a figure in Greek mythology. Atlas was a Titan who was foolish enough to battle against the gods of Mount Olympus. His punishment was to spend eternity literally, carrying the earth suspended from a support, across his shoulders. Somehow from this myth, we get the term “road atlas.” It is easy to picture Atlas stooped under the weight of the world. At some point in our lives, each of us can identify with him.
the weight of the government is on the voters shoulders
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
the weight of the government is on the voters shoulders
So those that are excluded from voting, like those sitting in jail with a felony drug conviction, bare no weight.
Isn't it quite democratic to exclude those from the democratic process that were convicted and jailed for violating an arbitrary law, thereby preventing them from ever voting for a representative that would vote to repeal the arbitrary law he or she was convicted of? That's American freedom and democracy in action.
And we wonder why other nations laugh at the American Federal government when they preach to the world about human rights abuse and questioning the legitimacy of elections in other nations.
So those that are excluded from voting, like those sitting in jail with a felony drug conviction, bare no weight.
Isn't it quite democratic to exclude those from the democratic process that were convicted and jailed for violating an arbitrary law, thereby preventing them from ever voting for a representative that would vote to repeal the arbitrary law he or she was convicted of? That's American freedom and democracy in action.
And we wonder why other nations laugh at the American Federal government when they preach to the world about human rights abuse and questioning the legitimacy of elections in other nations.
So those that are excluded from voting, like those sitting in jail with a felony drug conviction, bare no weight.
Isn't it quite democratic to exclude those from the democratic process that were convicted and jailed for violating an arbitrary law, thereby preventing them from ever voting for a representative that would vote to repeal the arbitrary law he or she was convicted of? That's American freedom and democracy in action.
And we wonder why other nations laugh at the American Federal government when they preach to the world about human rights abuse and questioning the legitimacy of elections in other nations.
point being that our elected are NOT from a vacuum......
I don't think we know logically what we vote for....it's all about the creepy feeling Tonko types.....
love of government like a religion gets us in trouble....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
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