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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:04pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life



There are no terrorist out there that they are protecting you from. They are merely protecting their own share of the tax booty by promoting the fear and keeping you needing them.



Let me explain in greater detail.

The government wants you to need them, or they lose your voluntary cash flow to them.

They invented terrorism because the ran out of actual people to protect you from.

If anyone wanted to terrorize the US, no one could stop them.

No tanks, fences, walls, nuclear weapons, millions of police and soldiers.

Any idiot could start half the country on fire with a box of matches.

There is no way to actually prevent it. You could spend quadrillions on defense of terrorism and still be victim to a box of matches or any number of simple ways to cost the country millions upon millions.

If anyone wanted to attack us they would just do it. They aren't afraid to die.

The fact is they are protecting us from government invented threats.

The fact that no attacks have occurred doesn't prove anti-terrorism success.

It merely supports my notion that it is all paranoid lies meant to control YOU.

This is what is commonly known as false flag operations.

Let's look back through history:

1962

Operation Northwoods

Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag proposals that originated in 1962 within the United States government.The proposals called for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Hijacking/shooting down civil aircraft, bombing of US civilians, and other methods of creating justification for a war were presented to Kennedy.

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various U.S. military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the U.S. government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted; it was authored by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but then rejected by President John F. Kennedy.

President Kennedy had always been a servant of the elite, but he was so shocked by the Operation Northwoods document that he signed Executive Order 11110 shortly before his death announcing that he would abolish the Federal Reserve System. He also began to pull American soldiers out of Vietnam, and signed an order to abolish the CIA. For taking these decisive actions on behalf of our Constitutional Republic, Kennedy was assassinated.

"Only Thing We Have to Fear Is Fear Itself" - FDR





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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:06pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO



Your open boarder and socialized medicine system doesn't work because you are creating inequality by allowing people to reap the benefits from the fruits of another man's labor.



Lol


Inequality by allowing people to reap the benefits from the fruits of another man's labor is what we have now.
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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:10pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO

On the other hand, if capital markets were allowed to exist, and you proposed the same open border policy, I would then agree that you do not have to qualify to be equal, because if both the permanent resident and the casual visitor went to a doctor for a broken arm, both would be treated equally and charged the same amount for the service and be required to pay for it out of their own pockets.



A capital market is a market for securities (debt or equity), where business enterprises (companies) and governments can raise long-term funds. It is defined as a market in which money is provided for periods longer than a year.

Are you sure that you mean capital markets?



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CICERO
July 7, 2012, 10:11pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life



Lol


Inequality by allowing people to reap the benefits from the fruits of another man's labor is what we have now.


...And I agree, through fascist means(or corporatist for those scared of the word fascism) instead of socialist.  I am suggesting that the open border policy would work in a free capitalist market.


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CICERO
July 7, 2012, 10:15pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


A capital market is a market for securities (debt or equity), where business enterprises (companies) and governments can raise long-term funds. It is defined as a market in which money is provided for periods longer than a year.

Are you sure that you mean capital markets?


Cut me some slack, it's after midnight.


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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:25pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


In a socialized system that is funded through the coercive powers of government does require qualifying for equality.



I disagree. What are you qualifying for? The same rights that everyone would have?

Let's take Social Security for example. People pay in, they receive benefits.

You do in fact qualify for benefits, but that isn't equality. It is a retirement fund setup for the participants.

Medical care is given to all in need in almost every so called civilized country on Earth.

Everyone isn't forced to use it. But it exists for all. They don't say, hey this guys an American, let's just let him die.

We take care of those in need within our jurisdiction and they will take care of their own jurisdiction.

Taking care of those in need is something true Americans should be proud of, not whiney a** bitches about it.

We take care of other countries better than we take care of those within our borders.

We can afford it. We can stop hating and amassing weapons of mass destruction.

Again, it's the fear of it that seems to be troubling to you.

Freedom to travel freely. Freedom for people to come here to start a new life and fulfill their dreams.

It's not some whiney a** b**ch crap that haters should lock onto while spouting nationalist propaganda.

Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...

I lift my lamp beside the Golden Door. - The Statue Of Liberty

Should we melt it down to build a fence to keep out pesky foreigners?

Land of the free certainly has changed.

Because of cowardice and fear.
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CICERO
July 7, 2012, 10:28pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


I have a newsflash, there are no qualifications for freedom

The founding fathers would shoot you all in the back.


One qualification for freedom is you can't use a social welfare system that is paid for by people that are FORCED to pay for it.  That is called another kind of free - freeloading.


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CICERO
July 7, 2012, 10:41pm Report to Moderator

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The health care systems in the so-called civilized countries don't just exist they are paid for by their citizens.  And based on the current state of affairs in Europe, many of them were funded with borrowed money.  Now they are bankrupt and are being taken over by the central bankers.


I am all for free individualism, you seem to be suggesting international collectivism, where you are free to move around the world in and out of collectivist systems.


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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:49pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO

  If I am forced to pay tens of thousands of dollars over my lifetime to fund a central socialized medical system, then the person that hasn't paid a dime is less equal than me in relation to social medical care.  If I need an organ transplant and on a waiting list, and a visitor comes to America seeking the same organ transplant, I believe at that point somebody in government will have to make a judgment as to who is more deserving and FIRST in line to receive the organ transplant.


Obviously that would be determined by doctors using medical knowledge, as to who is in more dire need.

I paid my taxes first so the Mexican dies!

What kind of "me first" attitude is that?

Holy crap.

Have you no faith in the medical profession to treat people fairly if everyone has health care coverage?

If you were visiting your children in France, would you want to be excluded from an organ transplant due to not having paid into the system?

Or would you rather be treated fairly and equally on an as needed, most severe cases first, basis?

Just for the record, organs are donated across borders without passports.

Here is the European Union manual for cross country organ transplants:

http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_threats/human_substance/oc_organs/docs/organs_action_en.pdf

Europe has addressed these same issues that we are discussing, and you can read about it here:

Cross-border Healthcare  http://ec.europa.eu/health-eu/europe_for_patients/cross_border_healthcare/index_en.htm

Then you have the Cross border Healthcare Practices and Policies manual

http://www.euro.who.int/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/135994/e94875.pdf

Contents

Chapter 1 The Health Service Initiative: supporting the construction of a framework for cross-border health care

Chapter 2 Towards a renewed Community framework for safe, high-quality and efficient cross-border health care within the European Union

Chapter 3 Access to health care services within and between countries of the European Union

Chapter 4 Benefit baskets and tariffs

Chapter 5 Quality and safety

Chapter 6 Mapping national practices and strategies relating to patients’ rights

Chapter 7 Cross-border collaboration

Chapter 8 Past impacts of cross-border health care

Chapter 9 Cross-border health care data

Chapter 10 Annexes

BTW, thank you for the polite discussion

Perhaps there would be no shortage of organ donations if receiving health care was contingent on being a donor.

Currently there are 73,000 Americans waiting for organs and 56,000 Europeans.

One pen stroke from Obama could change every one of these lives.

Being an organ donor only requires that you be a donor while you are healthy and fit, in case something happens
to you you can be recycled.

What do you think? Would you allow health care to anyone who signs up to be a donor?

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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:51pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


One qualification for freedom is you can't use a social welfare system that is paid for by people that are FORCED to pay for it.  That is called another kind of free - freeloading.


So disabled or birth defectives are freeloading off of you?



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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:53pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO
The health care systems in the so-called civilized countries don't just exist they are paid for by their citizens.  And based on the current state of affairs in Europe, many of them were funded with borrowed money.  Now they are bankrupt and are being taken over by the central bankers.

.


They aren't bankrupt from health care.

They are bankrupt because of bankers.

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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 10:54pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


...And I agree, through fascist means(or corporatist for those scared of the word fascism) instead of socialist.  I am suggesting that the open border policy would work in a free capitalist market.



Free market I agree with.

You still need some social programs to meet the minimum needs of the people.

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Libertarian4life
July 7, 2012, 11:00pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from CICERO


Cut me some slack, it's after midnight.



I didn't mean anything by it, I was just confused. I believe wholeheartedly in free market based economy, but with social programs to meet the minimum requirements of the people.

As decided by them, not the government extortionists.

Social Security
Education/Indoctrination
Health Care
Personal Welfare

That's my list of social programs that meet the minimum needs of society.

Aside from that, the government should be out of every other aspect of business regulation.

Except,

No corporate loans from the government unless the taxpayers get a profit.

Low rate personal loans for any citizen.



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Henry
July 8, 2012, 3:13am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Libertarian4life


Freedom doesn't mean a damn thing to you does it.

Freedom will come from it.

One of the pesky dirtbag Mexicans may someday after receiving a quality US education, discover a cure for cancer or even immortality.

How dare you consider free travel and freedom to be dragging you down.

Freedom isn't something that can be rationed or qualified for by documentation.

It's an idea that doesn't follow the rules of "show us your papers."

You support freedom or you don't.

Pick a side.

The freedom side, or the government controlling your life side.

Stop listening to Ron Paul. He's a freedom hating Libertarian nationalist.

Entropy will not fail. You can't stop the laws of thermodynamics.

All borders cease to exist, all walls come crumbling down.

Freedom prevails.



So you don't want borders? Hmmm does that mean we should eliminate all states and erase all states rights and replace it under federal law. Under your utopia do we have representatives or just one king, with no borders one law rules all, we wouldn't have a say about what is best for different populations. You can't have a free society when you wish to force people to pay into a socialist system, if I disagree with your socialised medicine and healthcare under your plan I would have no say, what you want is a pure democracy not a republic. This is why borders are a good thing, whatever social issues are needed needs to be done at the smallest governments and that would be local, then state.



"In the beginning of a change, the Patriot is a scarce man, brave, hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, however, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a Patriot."

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Libertarian4life
July 8, 2012, 4:08am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Henry


So you don't want borders? Hmmm does that mean we should eliminate all states and erase all states rights and replace it under federal law. Under your utopia do we have representatives or just one king, with no borders one law rules all, we wouldn't have a say about what is best for different populations. You can't have a free society when you wish to force people to pay into a socialist system, if I disagree with your socialised medicine and healthcare under your plan I would have no say, what you want is a pure democracy not a republic. This is why borders are a good thing, whatever social issues are needed needs to be done at the smallest governments and that would be local, then state.



Borders can exist. Border laws are the enemies of freedom.

If you don't want to participate in democratically socialized collective systems, you are not forced to.

You choose top stay here and be part of the systems that we have.

That's the beauty of freedom, you can take it or leave it.

Participation in a free nation requires some social sacrifices to meet the minimum needs of society.

Beyond that, you can do whatever you wish.

The force that you object to is the force of the government taking your money and redistributing it.

We can never have a truly Libertarian existence without allowing suffering, poverty, sickness and death to exist without helping these poor souls to exist as well.

It is a great American tradition to help those in need.

It has become warped into whiney a** bitching about how unfair it is to force you to help your neighbors exist at minimal levels.

Hateful selfishness is not an admiral quality for an American.

Doing your part to help others attain their dreams as well is an admirable quality that should be taught to our young.

All the hate filled whiners don't b**ch about the collective moneys being taken for military force to be used on others.

Just on selective dirtbags of your choosing.

The government was created to help meet the minimal needs of society.

It has become a government fulfilling the needs of the wealthy, the selfish, corporations and the government itself.

Myself I disagree with money being taken from me to build weapons and kill people. That makes me an unwilling voluntary accomplice.

Yet I choose to be a part of the social collective and accept the democratic choices that have been made.

The government is the entity that you object to. They just talk you into blaming dirtbag Mexicans and the like.

There goal is your money and they will fill your head with lies and paranoia to get it.

Pure democracy? No.

Limited government that makes certain that basic needs to be the greatest land in the world are met.

No military conquests, no corporate financing.

People's basic needs.

Anything else is truly extortion and theft.

Borders can exist, and local laws can be enacted, but travel must be free, and the minimal government must be paid for.

It doesn't have to be income tax.

Local, state and federal sales taxes could cover the needs of keeping society, safe, healthy, educated, fed and housed.

On an as needed basis. You can keep your Cadillac health coverage, but basic humanity requires that we not allow Americans to starve, be homeless or die from lack of health care.

Basic human rights to not suffer, is much more important than stealth bombers, that truly accomplish nothing good for America.

Is a corporation deserving of government enforced price gouging on life saving medicines and procedures, when there are others willing to produce/perform it for next to nothing?

Corporations have more rights than the people do.

America has become a sad, pitiful place filled with angry mobs fighting over scraps left over from government thievery.

Freedom requires minimal sacrifice and tolerance.

Hate filled, "me first" exclusionism requires no special training or education.



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