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Who Gets To Vote in November???
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 9:05am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow
You don't read the local papers do you Box? There was voter fraud in Troy during the last election. Voter fraud in Indiana during primary elections. Acorn employees went to jail for forging signatures for voter registration. Much of the fraud was done with absentee ballots. Al Franken was elected due to prisoners voting when not eligible to do so and allowed Franken to become a Senator and cast a vote for Health-Care when one vote could have been the difference in pass or fail. Any voter fraud is too many.


I'd love to see the links to the VOTER FRAUD you are referring to in your post.

If you are referring to ELECTION FRAUD... that is a totally different problem.  I've not heard of any "VOTER FRAUD"
in the capitol district, or even in the state.  


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 9:43am Report to Moderator
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Four NY Democrats Plead Guilty to Voter Fraud Felony Charges

Thursday, 22 Dec 2011 01:22pm

Four Democratic officials and political operatives have pleaded guilty to voter fraud-related felony charges in an alleged scheme to steal an election in Troy, N.Y., FoxNews.com reports.

The group forged signatures on applications for absentee ballots and on the ballots themselves in a 2009 primary of the Working Families Party, which was affiliated with now-defunct community group ACORN.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Four NY Democrats Plead Guilty to Voter Fraud Felony Charges
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 9:53am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow

Four NY Democrats Plead Guilty to Voter Fraud Felony Charges

Thursday, 22 Dec 2011 01:22pm

Four Democratic officials and political operatives have pleaded guilty to voter fraud-related felony charges in an alleged scheme to steal an election in Troy, N.Y., FoxNews.com reports.

The group forged signatures on applications for absentee ballots and on the ballots themselves in a 2009 primary of the Working Families Party, which was affiliated with now-defunct community group ACORN.

Read more on Newsmax.com: Four NY Democrats Plead Guilty to Voter Fraud Felony Charges
Important: Do You Support Pres. Obama's Re-Election? Vote Here Now!


The story confused "Voter Fraud" with "Election Fraud".  NO voters committed fraud in this case.  The fraud was
committed by elections officials to rig the election using absentee ballots.
Fox News often promotes "Election Fraud" as if it were "VOTER FRAUD".  If your agenda is to to disenfranchise
voters, then promoting one as the other helps your cause.

Again Shadow... NO VOTERS COMMITTED FRAUD.  The new Republican VOTER ID laws would have had no effect
on Troy's Election Fraud.

If you can find any actual VOTER FRAUD, please post the link.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 9:57am Report to Moderator
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Peter Roff
Al Franken May Have Won His Senate Seat Through Voter Fraud
July 20, 2010 RSS Feed Print


It looks increasingly likely that at least one member of the United States Senate may owe his seat in the world’s greatest deliberative body not to his charisma or the persuasiveness of his message but to voter fraud.

As the Wall Street Journal's John Fund reports, Minnesota Democrat Al Franken’s narrow, 312-vote victory in 2008 over incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman may have come as the result of people being allowed to vote who, under existing law, shouldn’t have been
The certification of Franken as the victor came only after a series of recounts dragging out for almost half a year. It also sparked an investigation by Minnesota Majority, a conservative watchdog group that compared the list of those recorded as having voted in the election against what Fund calls “criminal rap sheets.” The group found, in what appears to clearly warrant further and official inquiry, that

    … At least 341 convicted felons voted in Minneapolis's Hennepin County, the state's largest, and another 52 voted illegally in St. Paul's Ramsey County, the state's second largest. Dan McGrath, head of Minnesota Majority, says that only conclusive matches were included in the group's totals. The number of felons voting in those two counties alone exceeds Mr. Franken's victory margin.
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/.....-Through-Voter-Fraud
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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 10:04am Report to Moderator
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Voter Fraud – How Safe is Your Vote?
Posted on July 26, 2011 by American Grams

Some of the most recent controversy is about voter ID. The democrats hate and oppose it, claiming it disenfranchises the minority voters. However, study after study has proven otherwise. So in a republic like ours, with the most important responsibility a citizen has to their country is an honest vote, why anyone would oppose requiring proof at the ballot box that the person casting that vote is the person that should be casting that vote. One answer might be voter fraud.

In the 2005 elections, the GAO reported that 1.5 million non-citizens voted in that election. These are individuals that had no right to cast a vote at all, yet had slipped through every system from the voter registration process to casting a ballot. That was 1.5 million citizen votes stolen!It starts at the registration process where states are not permitted to ask for proof of citizenship. Arizona voters passed a law requiring proof of citizenship upon registering to vote and the courts have since dismissed this law claiming it opposes the federal voter rights laws. How many non-citizens in this country are registered to vote, illegally?

Then to ensure the person actually marking the ballot is the person registered, states are enacting laws requiring some sort of voter identification. Liberals are fighting it.

But that only addresses part of the issue. Once you cast your ballot what else can go wrong? Isn’t it counted as you cast it? One would hope so, but think again! Electronic votes can be tampered with. This is the second such video I have seen where computer software has been used to change/alter the results of an election to produce a certain outcome.

The video below is testimony from a computer programmer who was asked to write voter fraud software.
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 10:09am Report to Moderator

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Voter Fraud vs Election Fraud... There's a huge difference.

In 2004 the Bush Justice Dept investigated voter fraud across the country.  They found 86 cases of voter fraud out of
122,000,000 voters.



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 10:20am Report to Moderator
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In the 2005 elections, the GAO reported that 1.5 million non-citizens voted in that election. These are individuals that had no right to cast a vote at all, yet had slipped through every system from the voter registration process to casting a ballot. That was 1.5 million citizen votes stolen! This is a quoter from above article that proves that people who are not eligible to vote have done so in every election. Box and the Dems want to have every illegal immigrant, every felon, and as many dead people as they can vote for them in every election. Voting is a right of the citizens of the USA and should be safe guarded to prevent people who are not eligible to vote from doing so. I posted the voter fraud links you wanted Box and voter fraud does exist contrary to what you would have us all believe.
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 10:25am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow


    … At least 341 convicted felons voted in Minneapolis's Hennepin County, the state's largest, and another 52 voted illegally in St. Paul's Ramsey County, the state's second largest. Dan McGrath, head of Minnesota Majority, says that only conclusive matches were included in the group's totals. The number of felons voting in those two counties alone exceeds Mr. Franken's victory margin.


What you are reporting IS NEWS REPORTS, mostly from Conservative outlets (FOX etc).  
When you investigate you will find a different story.

In Hennepin County, 731 court record searches were performed. 289 were deemed to be
conclusive identity matches of felons who were not eligible to vote on November 4th of 2008. Another
161 records were deemed inconclusive due to incomplete or unclear public data.
For 281 of the names searched, we did not find evidence that the suspected felon was both convicted of a
felony and ineligible to vote on November 4th of 2008.
As examples, a felon may have been charged before the election, but not convicted until afterwards, their
sentence was shortened so they were “off book” before the election, their charge was reduced from a felony
to a gross misdemeanor in court and other similar situations.

In Ramsey County, 165 court record searches were performed (35% of the file). Of those, 52 were
deemed to be conclusive identity matches of felons who were not eligible to vote on November 4th of
2008. 32 were deemed inconclusive and for 81 records, evidence of ineligibility was not found in the
online court record system.

NOTE(CHARGES of fraud are rampant, actual fraud is so rare to be almost non existent.)



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 10:31am Report to Moderator
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By your own admission people who should not be allowed to vote have been voting therefore the need to prove voter eligibility.
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 10:41am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow
By your own admission people who should not be allowed to vote have been voting therefore the need to prove voter eligibility.


There is a huge problem of Election Fraud.  The Republican VOTER ID laws will have no effect on the major problem...
Election Fraud.  
The intent of VOTER ID LAWS is to reduce Democrat votes...nothing more.


The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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Shadow
December 27, 2011, 10:50am Report to Moderator
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If people are citizens of the USA they can get the proper ID and therefore vote.
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Box A Rox
December 27, 2011, 10:56am Report to Moderator

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Quoted from Shadow
If people are citizens of the USA they can get the proper ID and therefore vote.


This is one of those "good laws" that would disappear immediately if the results were that a few million Republican
voters would be stopped from voting.  
The entire process isn't about Voter ID, it's agenda is Voter Suppression.



The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral
philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness.

John Kenneth Galbraith

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senders
December 27, 2011, 5:37pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from Box A Rox


An OLD TRICK???
This woman has been voting for decades by showing a state issued identification... Under the Republican voter ID Plan,
She won't be eligible to vote.


it's an old trick played by the parties in the past....this lady's story is just like the stories past when certain political parties want manipulation.....BOTH parties do this.....then they think they are
'legislating for the good of the plebs'....hahahahahahaha....that's where we go wrong......

Quoted Text
A History of Political Parties
Political parties are considered a relatively new phenomenon.  At the same time, however, parties remain an important part of American political history.  In one of his more famous addresses, President George Washington recognized the power and danger of political parties.  The Federalist Papers also warned of the dangers of factions, and especially those that can grow to a size larger than a numeric majority.  Despite these warnings, political parties began to form even during the signing of the Constitution: the Federalist and Anti-Federalist groups held opposing views on politics, governance, representation and power.  Since then, the country has had two-party battles.

The Federalists vs. The Democratic-Republicans (1790s-1820s)
The signing of the Constitution did not dissolve the intense debates between the Federalists and Anti-Federalists.  To the contrary, the Federalists (under the leadership of such men as John Adams and Alexander Hamilton) emerged as a powerful political force.  In addition, many within the Anti-Federalist camp (including Thomas Jefferson) joined together to form the Democratic-Republicans.  At this time parties began to commit themselves to issue stances, and the first partisan race occurred in 1796.  In the original Constitution the President and Vice-President were chosen by a single ballot: the candidate with the highest Electoral College total would become President, the second highest total to become Vice President.  Thus, in 1796 John Adams (a Federalist) became President with a Democratic-Republican (Jefferson) as Vice-President.  Of course, this appears quite foreign to contemporary America, as the Twelfth Amendment provided for separate Presidential and Vice Presidential ballots.  This period also witnessed the first problems with the Electoral College system.  The Constitution requires that if no one receives a majority of Electoral College votes, the House of Representatives decides who becomes President.  In the race of 1800, with Thomas Jefferson running against Aaron Burr, both candidates received the exact same number of Electoral College votes; it required 36 separate votes in the House of Representatives to decide the winner!

The "Era of Good Feelings" (1820-1824)
For a very brief moment in the country's history, political partisanship played little role in American politics at the Presidential level.  During the 1820 Presidential race, James Monroe was re-elected with all but one Electoral College vote (one stubborn Elector refused to grant the vote to James, out of a desire not to let James have a unanimous victory!).  At the time, no issues divided the nation; to our ears this sounds virtually impossible, with social and economic issues leading to heated rhetoric and debate.  In addition, party competition remained quite minimal; after all, how can anyone disagree with no issues splitting the nation?  This time period also saw the emergence of King Caucus, in which members of each party's delegation in Congress nominated Presidential candidates.

Democrats vs. Whigs (1820s-1850s)
The 1824 Presidential election marked two significant events.  First, it marked the last Presidential election to be settled by the House of Representatives and is also considered a "stolen election."  Four candidates ran for office: Andrew Jackson, John Quincy Adams, Henry Clay, and a Mr. Crawford.  In the initial election Jackson won 37.9%of the Electoral College vote, and Adams 32.2% of the vote.  Since neither had a majority, the House of Representatives needed to decide the fate of President. As Henry Clay had no chance of victory, he threw his support behind Adams (and not Jackson!).  Some members of Congress also considered Jackson a demagogue as well as a political outsider.  The 1824 election is thus considered "stolen" because despite his lead in the popular vote Jackson ended up losing in the House vote!  Grateful for Clay's support, and with a narrow victory, Adams ended up appointing Clay Secretary of State.

As a result of this election, Andrew Jackson led the movement to form the Democratic party in 1828.  (The Democratic party is currently the oldest living political party in the world.)  Jackson thus ran again for President, this time as a Democrat.  Political parties also began to realize the importance of electoral victories, with state governments increasing registration requirements.  After all, each political party believed they could achieve future victories by appealing to newly-registered voters.  The relaxation of such requirements led to a 300% increase in voter registration, all within four years!  Parties also began to use national conventions to select Presidential candidates and began to do away with King Caucus.  Soon after the formation of the Democratic party, a coalition of former Democratic-Republicans, Anti-Masons and Jackson haters merged to form the Whig party in 1834.  The Whig party proved quite successful at gaining congressional seats, and also managed to gain access to the White House with William H. Harrison and Zachary Taylor.  At the time, the nation divided itself because of the issue of tariffs.  To what extent should this emerging country initiate and maintain trade relations with other nations?

Democrats v. Republicans (1850s-1890s)
By the 1850s, some former Whigs and anti-slavery Democrats met in secret to discuss the potential of creating a new political party.  Some former Whigs became quite dissatisfied with the dissipation of the party's influence.  In addition, some Democrats began to change their mind about the Democratic party on the slavery issue (that began to divide the country much more than did tariffs).  This and similar meetings led to the Republican party, created to oppose the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854.  This new political party sent its first candidate (John Fremont) into the 1856 presidential race.  Four years later, the Republican party won the White House.  During the 1860 election, four serious contenders emerged: Stephen Douglas (northern Democrats), Abraham Lincoln (Republicans), John Breckenridge (southern Democrats) and John Bell (Constitutional Union).

The 1860 election became a critical election: a sharp change in the existing patterns of party loyalties among voter groups.  Prior to the 1860 election, voters had considered the importance of the tariffs issue among others; during the 1860 election, many voters changed their party loyalties due to a mis-match between their personal views on slavery and of their (formerly beloved) party.  For the next thirty years, both parties achieved a rough balance of power.  The Republican party won eight of the next ten presidential races, but both parties achieved a rough equality in Congress.  At the same time, critics of the election system began to assert that party bosses, sitting in "smoke-filled rooms," made various political deals without the assent of party followers.   This led to the Progressive movement, in which many states began to change their presidential nomination system away from caucuses and toward the adoption of political primaries.

Democrats vs. Republicans (1896-1932)
Around this time, political parties became much more organized and developed as party organizations.  In addition, both parties became more successful at attracting voters.  The 1896 represented another critical election: in response to an economic depression (back then called a "panic") people debated the importance of economic policy and tying the nation's money to the gold standard.  Republicans nominated William McKinley, a candidate who favored high tariffs and matching the nation's money to the value of gold.  The Democratics nominated William Jennings Bryan, who favored the unlimited coinage of silver as cheap money and an easy method of paying debts through inflation.

As one indicator of the importance of the gold standard in the  1896 election, Bryan delivered the "Cross of Gold" speech at the Democratic National Convention.  It included the following:

  "No private character, however pure, no personal popularity, however
   great, can protect from the avenging wrath of an indignant people a
   man who will declare that he is in favor of fastening the gold standard
   upon this country, or who is willing to surrender the right of self-
   government and place the legislative control of our affairs in the hands
   of foreign potentates and powers."
  
  
  

Have you ever wondered how the relationship between the Republican party and "big business" began, the same party that only thirty years pushed for the end of slavery?  The 1896 election solidified the tie between the Republican party and business and represented the first step.  It also signaled a Republican majority in industrial America, with conservatives fleeing from radical Democrats.

Democrats vs. Republicans (1930s-present)
1932-1968.  Since the 1930s both parties have seen their opportunity to hold a majority.  With the 1929 stock market crash, President Hoover (a Republican) told a panicking public that "American thrift" and state-level efforts will pull the country out of the depression.  As this did not prove successful, the Democratic candidate (Franklin Delano Roosevelt) offered a daring set of solutions and said to the voters, "I pledge you, I pledge myself, to a new deal for the American people."  His 1932 campaign appealed successfully to a diverse coalition of groups, now known as the Roosevelt Coalition: Democrats in the Solid South (many of them quite conservative), urban workers in the North (many who were liberal), Catholics and Jews, and white ethnic minorities (not the greatest friends of Southern Democrats either).  With his economic reforms (which he considered to be a temporary measure), Roosevelt managed to bring these groups together.  The Roosevelt coalition, and the 1932 and 1936 elections, marked an electoral realignment: a sharp change in voter loyalties that lasts for a number of year.  From then on, Democrats began to dominate Congress.  The 1950s also marked the beginning of a newer phenomenon, that of a dealignment: party loyalties are perceived as less important in the minds of voters.  According to this idea, voters think about other factors (such as the candidate's previous political experience, his character, and so on) and less about the political party the candidate represents.

1968-1980.  The 1860, 1896, and 1932 elections represented fundamental changes in the beliefs and party loyalties of American voters.  Yet while researchers expected yet another sharp change within the electorate, this did not happen.  Even as the 1960s ended, with its emphasis on civil rights and liberties and questioning of traditional mores, this experience did not produce a fundamental change.  It produced a series of protests from college students, in diverse settings from Cornell University (New York) to fire bombs at the University of Wisconsin to massive protests at the University of California, Berkeley.



It also led to the controversial protests at the 1968 Democratic National Convention in Chicago, Illinois: as the number of college students protested loudly outside the convention, Mayor Daley ordered the city police to disperse the rowdy crowd with riot gear and fire hoses.  (For more information about the ill-fated riots at the '68 convention, look here.)  At the same time, while it did lead to a schism within the Democratic party it did not lead to a realignment or a critical election.   With Johnson deciding not to seek re-election, the student protests, and the decision of Alabama Governor George Wallace to run for President, the Democratic party experienced a threat to its vitality.  The 1972 convention proved such difficulties: the convention permitted a great number of anti-war protesters, civil rights advocates and feminist organizations into the mix but their candidate, George McGovern, now appeared to the public as an unpatriotic liberal.  The Republican party continued to retain control over the White House until the election of Jimmy Carter (1976-1980).

1980-present.  In the midst of the oil crisis of the 1970s, as well as the lack of purpose in foreign affairs after the Vietnam War, the importance of economic and domestic policy became more prominent.  This led to the Reagan Coalition: former California Governor Ronald Reagan brought together economic conservatives (pushing for capital gains and income tax cut), social conservatives (caring most strongly about the breakdown of morality and the American family), religious fundamentalists (at odds with economic conservatives), Southern whites and anti-communists during his 1980 Presidential campaign.  All of these groups came together in their support for Reagan as President.  At the same time, the Democratic party appeared to be the captive of special interest groups.  For this reason, emerging leaders in the Democratic party formed the Democratic Leadership Council in 1980 to re-shape the party's image.  These "new Democrats" began to appeal to the economic welfare of its citizens.  The most important issue to "new Democrats" (such as Bill Clinton) was a healthy economy; the government should thus get involved in order to help stimulate economic growth.  Does this sound familiar?  Consider the slogan during the 1992 Presidential race: "It's the Economy, Stupid!"
  


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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senders
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do you not think that a NATIONAL REAL-ID is not being pushed here?

forcing the tracking of plebs

1. fear for safety
    a. airport
    b.job
    c. HIPPA
    d. fingerprinting kids

2. fear for survival
    a. access to $$ virtual through this digital age
    b. healthcare access
    c. food
    d. water
    e. housing

3. desire for ease
    a. hassel at airport
    b. hassel at borders
    c. hassel at vacation
    d. hassel when getting loans
    e. hassel when getting insurance
    f. hassel when buying home

the list is endless.......

NO ID =

NO VOTE
NO TRADE
NO FOOD
NO WATER
NO HOUSING
NO HEALTHCARE
NO CAR
NO JOB


ETC ETC ETC......

I ASK THIS QUESTION?  WHAT AMERICAN F'EN SIGNED UP FOR THAT CRAP AND ACTUALLY THINKS IT'S OK......  ANYONE?


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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William Pen
December 28, 2011, 1:56pm Report to Moderator
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Given the (il)logical statements of those who support allowing anyone to vote without proof of identity (US citizenship), I assume that
you also support allowing individuals to drive motor vehicles without being required to provide their license when pulled over by law enforcement.
Both documents are evidence of eligibility.
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