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PEF Says NYET to Cuomo!
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benny salami
September 27, 2011, 12:25pm Report to Moderator
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The second largest State union said NO! to Gov Cuomo's givebacks to avoid layoffs. Gov Cuomo has insisted that there will be over 3,200 layoffs if this contract was rejected. Now the ball is back in his court.
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MobileTerminal
September 27, 2011, 12:27pm Report to Moderator
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at least they had the cajones to stand up to him.  

3200 probably left the state in the last 24 hours - no net gain.
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bumblethru
September 27, 2011, 2:47pm Report to Moderator
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Oh it's all smoke and mirrors. No body is going to get laid off and concessions will be made.


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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rpforpres
September 27, 2011, 5:40pm Report to Moderator

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Talked to my brother earlier he voted no : ) Must be a good reason.
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senders
September 27, 2011, 6:13pm Report to Moderator
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the report was that if the 'millionaires tax' wasn't going to go into effect and if they didn't stop using contractors instead of the union workers it 'WASN'T FAIR'.....holy 'F'.....if that aint the kettle calling the pot black.....they dont get used because
their F'en union gangsta rules (made by legislators going for votes) it cost them MORE......

so guess what you pansy a$$ babies....FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK GET OFF MY BACK AND MOVE TO GREECE....they need some overweight paperweights and voters.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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AVON
September 28, 2011, 6:45am Report to Moderator
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Quoted from senders
the report was that if the 'millionaires tax' wasn't going to go into effect and if they didn't stop using contractors instead of the union workers it 'WASN'T FAIR'.....holy 'F'.....if that aint the kettle calling the pot black.....they dont get used because
their F'en union gangsta rules (made by legislators going for votes) it cost them MORE......

so guess what you pansy a$$ babies....FIND ANOTHER LINE OF WORK GET OFF MY BACK AND MOVE TO GREECE....they need some overweight paperweights and voters.....



             I have neighbors, married couple, that are both contractors.  I said to them once, "To bad you couldn't get a State position!"  Neither one wanted to change their contract status.  They get the same time off, same benefits, are considered the same as union employees, but they get considerably higher pay through the federal funding of the Agencies they contract through.

              Just sayin, sometimes the grass really is greener on the other side . . . . .

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senders
September 29, 2011, 6:02pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from AVON



             I have neighbors, married couple, that are both contractors.  I said to them once, "To bad you couldn't get a State position!"  Neither one wanted to change their contract status.  They get the same time off, same benefits, are considered the same as union employees, but they get considerably higher pay through the federal funding of the Agencies they contract through.

              Just sayin, sometimes the grass really is greener on the other side . . . . .



that's why the states get ripped off with mandates or is it the other way around?.....chicken or the egg first?


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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CICERO
September 29, 2011, 6:13pm Report to Moderator

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Quoted from rpforpres
Talked to my brother earlier he voted no : ) Must be a good reason.


I'm hearing no raises for 3 years and the first year a 5 day furlough, with increase contribution to their health insurance.  

I think only Governor Cuomo and the Union negotiators understand the political climate in America and New York.  The Republicans ran Carl Paladino, which is a pretty far lurch to the right compared to Pataki. The rank and file union members are oblivious, they think they're invulnerable.  They've been on the gravy train so long, they think it will NEVER end.  When the limited government wave sweeps across the nation and through New York, they will be regretting not taking this offer.  Next stop ---- the real world.


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bumblethru
September 29, 2011, 7:26pm Report to Moderator
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The government should have never gotten into the 'employment' business. That should be left up to the private sector. And I'm not being naive here...of course the government needs some employees....but it has gotten way out of hand. And unionizing government employees is about as ludicrous as you can get!!

The state could lay off 10% of the working force and still be over employed!


When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM
In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche


“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.”
Adolph Hitler
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GravelGertie
October 5, 2011, 2:10pm Report to Moderator
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Although I believe our governor -- Andre Cuomo will go on to be recognized as the GREATEST Governor EVER -- I believe he is misguided in his effort to oppose PEF.....The jobs need not be cut and we ought to be able to do it without raising taxes on middle income peoples............
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senders
October 5, 2011, 5:50pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted from 1630
Although I believe our governor -- Andre Cuomo will go on to be recognized as the GREATEST Governor EVER -- I believe he is misguided in his effort to oppose PEF.....The jobs need not be cut and we ought to be able to do it without raising taxes on middle income peoples............


get your plane ticket to Greece already.....I'll have a nice bottle of Chianti waiting in your hotel room for you, along with a copy of Savage County so you can reminisce.....


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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senders
October 9, 2011, 3:09pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
NYS Common Retirement Fund Releases First Quarter Results

The New York State Common Retirement Fund's (Fund) overall rate of return for the first quarter ending June 30, 2011 was 1.80 percent, according to figures released today by New York State Comptroller Thomas P. DiNapoli. The Fund's estimated value at the end of the first quarter of its fiscal year stood at $146.98 billion, an estimated increase of $480 million over its value at the end of the fiscal year on March 31, 2011.

"The financial markets have shown increased volatility as the economy struggles to build momentum," DiNapoli said. "These are challenging times as we continue to grapple with sluggish job growth and concerns over European sovereign debt. However, the Fund continues to be among the strongest in the nation and we have a diversified investment strategy and long-term perspective to help manage these market conditions."

In 2009, DiNapoli initiated quarterly performance reporting by the Fund, which had previously disclosed its results annually. This practice is part of DiNapoli's efforts to increase transparency and accountability regarding Fund management and performance.


we're screwed


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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senders
October 16, 2011, 1:14pm Report to Moderator
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Quoted Text
Looking Twice at Pension Double-Dipping

Should full pensions be allowed if you keep working?

BY: Girard Miller | December 17, 2009





Girard Miller
Girard Miller is the Public Money columnist for GOVERNING and a senior strategist at the PFM Group.










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Commented May 31, 2011

You obviously did not enter the US military 30 years ago. They told us (I joined in 1963) we would ...

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Recent news coverage in USA Today highlighted the public-sector practice of "double dipping" -- receiving pension benefits intended for retirement purposes while drawing a salary with another employer (or in some cases, the same employer).

Pension watchdogs loathe double-dippers, and progressive reformers are now wondering whether something is indeed wrong when retirement benefits are paid to employees who are obviously capable of earning an income. Critics say the practice is akin to doling out farm subsidies for big, successful farmers who are already making good money.

Most notorious are senior management employees, police and fire chiefs, and others who draw six-figure pensions before age 60, and then work for another employer at the six-figure level. Some states are considering legislation to curb what are perceived as abuses.

There are several sides to this issue, and I'll try to provide an objective analysis and provoke a thoughtful debate to encourage suitable and sensible reforms. For starters, I'll suggest that with a few notable exceptions - such as the former California administrator who manipulated his way to a $500,000 lifetime pension - most public employees have earned a right to a decent and modest public pension that assures them a secure retirement. If they work part-time in a second career after toiling for 30 years at $50,000 or less, I have no issue with their work ethic and their right to supplemental income to pay for travel or a new car. That's not what this column is about, however. We're focused here on the highly visible double-dippers who game the system to collect big money from a system that never intended to create pension millionaires and pension aristocrats at taxpayer expense.

Replacement income vs. deferred compensation. Pensions were intended to provide retirement security, not pre-retirement wealth. To provide security, they should provide replacement income in retirement. Replacement income is not dual income. Pensions were not designed to be "deferred compensation" as some would argue. IRS codes provide plenty of arrangements for deferred compensation, including 457 plans common in the public sector which limit the annual contributions and thus the total accumulations that can be withdrawn later. That said, there are some parallels to consider when evaluating the double-dip phenomenon. We should always think about how we would feel if a corporate employee with a 401(k) plan begins to withdraw retirement plan assets while working for another employer. If the net financial result is the same for a double-dipper, then the problem is not with the pension system. Conversely, if a pension recipient receives benefits unavailable through a defined contribution plan, including tax preferences, then suspicions should arise.

A lack of self-awareness. Most public employees feel that they have earned their pensions, but many seem to be unaware of how much earlier they are able to receive substantial benefits than their counterparts in the private sector. It is their entitlement to pre-retirement income that is disputed by the watchdogs. Many of the early "retirees" who double-dip clearly view their pension as deferred compensation and pre-retirement income, not retirement security. They also tend to overlook the gamesmanship that transpires in the pubic pension arena, where workers can transfer service credits from one employer to another and parlay benefits that could never be attained in the corporate world. Portability is one thing; triple-dipping is another.

Double-dipping would be much less frequent if public employees were required to work until Medicare or Social Security age before retiring -- unless they take an actuarial reduction in their pension, just like early retirees under Social Security. Such a system would impose a financial penalty on early retirees which would also reduce the costs of funding the system properly. Then, an employee could supplement her reduced pension with outside income from a second career or a job with a new employer.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to impose such requirements on incumbent employees who view their pension benefits as property rights. Some states have laws making their benefits irreversible once they are vested. However, there are other ways for legislatures to skin this cat, including an excise tax on double-dippers, as I'll discuss below.

For retirees who have reached Medicare and Social Security age, the double-dipping issues are less prevalent. Historically, most workers quit laboring at that point. However, there are new issues that we as a society must face as Baby Boomers reject their parents' shuffleboard retirement paradigm and seek relevance in our society by working in a second career. In most cases, they will downshift to lower-compensated work that gives them personal satisfaction and a sense of involvement with lower stress. What we need to think through is whether the pension should be adjusted in such instances.

Tax the double-dippers? Financially strapped states could impose an excise tax or an income surtax on double-dip income, which would be one way to restore funds to the pension system. For example, states could collect a 15 to 25 percent surtax on income received while earning more than 50 percent of the annual pension, or a similar surtax if combined pension and earned income exceeds the employee's previous five years' average income. The latter arrangement would also address excessive pension ratios.

Low-income retirees and those older than 66 should be exempted, of course. I would prefer to see the tax revenues returned to the pension systems, especially if they are significantly underfunded. This would be an example of a tax that produces in insignificant statewide revenue, but serves as an equalizer for public policy purposes.

Federal law imposes a 15 percent surtax on early distributions before age 59 1/2 in qualified defined contribution plans. I'd say that what is good for the goose is good for the gander and that a similar tax should apply to early pension payments that are not actuarially reduced or reflective of a 30-year career. An excise tax on premature pension distributions could be triggered by excessive supplemental employment earnings prior to Social Security age (for state taxes) and age 59 1/2 for federal taxpayers.

Presently, 10 states do not tax public employee pensions, and some of them will be forced to consider pension income taxes as revenue-raising measures -- including Michigan, which offers the biggest loopholes. I won't be surprised to see legislators and pension watchdogs in several of these states take a hard look at the double-dipping issue when the general tax policy for pension income is reviewed.

Allow a benefit-bump instead. An alternative approach to mitigating the double-dipper syndrome is to reduce pensioners' benefits while they receive outside income, and then permit them to receive a bonus payment later in the form of an increased annuity. The Social Security system has figured this out, so why haven't pension funds? For example, a pensioner entitled to a $40,000 benefit while working a second job could receive $20,000 in a reduced pension while still working, and then receive a pension greater than $40,000 after leaving the workforce altogether. The increased life pension after age 66 would be approximately one-fifteenth of the reduction taken each year, so in this example, a three-year pension reduction of $20,000 annually for double-dipping before age 66 would entitle the her to a subsequent increase of $4,000 annually for life -- thus an enriched $44,000 pension thereafter.

If faced with an excise tax, double-dippers could elect this reconfiguration of their pensions, minimize taxes, and still come out equal actuarially. Some may actually prefer this arrangement because of high marginal federal tax rates on their combined income while they work the second job. In fact, there may be other ordinary pensioners who would prefer to elect a deferral arrangement, which might even include enhanced spousal survival benefits if properly designed by the actuaries. Obviously IRS codes or letter opinions may need adjustment to enable such flexibility, but that will become increasingly necessary as Baby Boomers adopt alternative lifestyles in their retirement years.

We need creative solutions, not finger-pointing. I don't purport to have all the answers here, but our lawmakers and taxing authorities need to address these thorny problems. For starters, we obviously need to raise the regular retirement ages for public pension plans to align them with Social Security, which would eliminate most of the double-dipping. Other reforms such as those suggested above would eliminate the remaining abuses by incumbent employees whose benefits formulas are untouchable. Otherwise public confidence in the public-sector retirement system will continue to erode and future employees will bear the brunt of the punishment for the sins of their predecessors.



You may use or reference this story with attribution and a link to
http://www.governing.com/columns/public-money/Looking-Twice-at-Pension.html


...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......

The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.


STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS

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