Quoted from 612

FDR knew they were rounding up Jews and he knew that the US should have bombed the rail stations and didn't do it. That was my only beef with FDR.

Don't try that twisting crap.  I never said any of that stuff you have posted.  You act moronic when you do that.  If you cannot address directly what I have said then don't respond at all.  

There is conflicting evidence of how much FDR or anyone knew about the NAZI atrocities going on at
the so-called work camps.  Personally, I don't believe much of what the "conspiracy theorists" have to
say on the subject.

Bombing the actual rail stations would have killed many innocent civilians including those who were
Jewish or any of the several dozen classes of people being rounded up.   The Allies did bomb the
railroad tracks and the railroad bridges and the fuel stockpiles which fueled the NAZI trains and
motorized vehicles.

Quoted from Box A Rox

(Paraphrasing  the quote)

"Invading the sovereign country of Iraq and forcing democracy on the "liberated" people of Iraq"
... How did that work out for the USA?

How did it work out when the usa forced democracy on the 'liberated' people of nazi germany and france?

Quoted from 612

  AGain I do not dislike the military--just don't want them on the grounds of a high school--I feel the same way about drug dealers.

Sorry you feel it is alright to act so self-righteous when it comes to the lives of young people.

Did you just compare military recruiters to drug dealers?  Way to show your true colors and hatred toward the military.  I'm not sure you even realize how much you loath the military.  

Do you believe Planned Parenthood should be allowed on high school property?  Should high school aged girls be able to have an abortion without parental consent?  Should abortion be an option taught to high school aged girls?  

Not to worry, the liberal genie will soon be put back into the lamp.

Quoted from 612

FDR knew they were rounding up Jews .  

And then why didn't the beloved FDR tell these young men, about the jews BEFORE they were DRAFTED/FORCED to go fight a war they knew very little about....and all the while sold a bill of goods on how it would make the world a war free utopia!!

And exactly WHEN did FDR reveal this information about the jews? How did it all come to light?

Cis-stop acting like such an arrogant fool.  I loathe the military???  LOL  
Once again because YOU DON"T UNDERSTAND--
Military recruiting at high schools? NO-I don't care that it is part of the No Child Left Behind Act which was introduced by George Worst Bush who suffered from NO Brain Left to Leave Behind.

Planned Parenhood in school?  No for what?  Sex education should pretty much explain options in a public arena.  NO to abortion without parental consent before the age of 16.  As being taught as an option-yes. But again let's talk about responsibility if you are  going to get involved in a sexual situation as a teen.

Should abortion be an option for those women in the military who are raped by soldiers?  Does that happen?  YOU BET!  

BT-first of all the US NEVER declared war on Germany.  As part of the Lend-lease program the US was giving aid to Britain as I recall.  US declared war on Japan and then Hitler on the US.

A man by the name of Jan Karski, from the Polish underground, went to FDR TWICE and told him what was happening to the Jews.  That was in 1943.  He recommended the bombing of the rails.  Check the old newspapers, I brought Jan Karski here to Schenectady/Albany to speak.  Check with St. Adalbert's.  Hey DVR how come you don't know about this.  It was FDR's aid who said he couldn't believe the story.  FDR was too late to help the Jews.

Joe Kennedy as well was no help.  There is not enough space or time for me to review history with those who are biased.

Quoted from 612

BT-first of all the US NEVER declared war on Germany.  As part of the Lend-lease program the US was giving aid to Britain as I recall.  US declared war on Japan and then Hitler on the US.

A man by the name of Jan Karski, from the Polish underground, went to FDR TWICE and told him what was happening to the Jews.  That was in 1943.  He recommended the bombing of the rails.  Check the old newspapers, I brought Jan Karski here to Schenectady/Albany to speak.  Check with St. Adalbert's.  Hey DVR how come you don't know about this.  It was FDR's aid who said he couldn't believe the story.  FDR was too late to help the Jews.

Joe Kennedy as well was no help.  There is not enough space or time for me to review history with those who are biased.

1943 was within 2 years of FDR's death --- so the statement that  "FDR knew for years" .. is misleading.
Karski is one source... there are other sources that dispute when and how much FDR knew  .. and I
personally don't believe that FDR knew as much as his critics claim he knew.

But even in 1943 --- American bombers were bombing German railroads, bridges, and roads ...  how deeply
they were able to bomb within German-held territory was limited by a number of factors including technology
and the distance from airbases in Great Britain.    My Dad served in the Army Air Corp in Europe .. so I know
from what he told me that our ability to bomb DEEP within German-held territory took some time to develop --  we had to develop bigger and better bombers,  develop  technology to make it more difficult for the
Luftwaffe to intercept these bombers  and  -- certainly -- once we had the ability to build air bases in France
we were able to more effectively fly bombing missions DEEP within German-held territory.

So  even IF Karski is correct ... knowing there is a problem and being able to actually do something about
the problem are two different things.     I do NOT believe the critics who say that FDR did not try everything  that was possible to defeat Germany as quickly as possible .. and to stop their atrocities as quickly as possible.   I believe he did try and we did - eventually - succeed.

DVR-Yes after Hitler declared war on us he did everything to finish the job.  That is true. Do not negate the words of Jan Karski.  He was an eye-witness. Go back ten years.  US diplomat James McDonald spoke to FDR about the pending fate of the Jews.  FDR did not send the message to Hitler or to the Jews that the US disapproved.  He could have sent that message by boycotting the Olympics.  Rabbi Stephen Wise was the head of the American Jewish Community at that time.  He pleaded with FDR to publicly denounce what Hitler was doing.  FDR refused.  Don't misunderstand, FDR was not an anti-Semite he just sat by idly.  David Wyman, who also was here to speak, (not such a good speaker btw) wrote of the abandoment of the Jews.  If you don't know him, you should know he is Protestant who taught at UMass Amherst.  Expert on the Holocaust.  You should also know that I am a former Holocaust educator.  My father, too, was there.  More notably, my father-in-law who is an Italian citizen, living in Italy at the time, was stationed near the Czech border, saw trains going to Poland and reported that there were rumors there were Jews on the trains heading to death camps.  He said the story was so unimaginable that no one believed it.

Stand down DVR - I got you on this one.  I love FDR and what he did for this country.  This episode in his career was a disappointment.

The U.S. went to war with the 'radical german nazi regime' AFTER they declared war on us FIRST......correct?
The U.S. drafted young men to over throw the 'radical german nazi regime'.......correct?
Many innocent german's and young american boys were killed in the process........correct?

A 'YES' or 'NO' answer will suffice.

Yes.  Hitler declared war on the US several days after Pearl Harbor.  

Quoted from bumblethru

The U.S. went to war with the 'radical german nazi regime' AFTER they declared war on us FIRST......correct?
The U.S. drafted young men to over throw the 'radical german nazi regime'.......correct?
Many innocent german's and young american boys were killed in the process........correct?

A 'YES' or 'NO' answer will suffice.

.........and............????

And what?  You wanted a yes or no--and you know the rest of the story.  

Bye bye.

Quoted from 612

And what?  You wanted a yes or no--and you know the rest of the story.  

Bye bye.

I knew you wouldn't be able to answer those questions HONESTLY without incriminating yourself.

Insert foot in mouth!

Quoted from 612

DVR-Yes after Hitler declared war on us he did everything to finish the job.  That is true. Do not negate the words of Jan Karski.  He was an eye-witness. Go back ten years.  US diplomat James McDonald spoke to FDR about the pending fate of the Jews.  FDR did not send the message to Hitler or to the Jews that the US disapproved.  He could have sent that message by boycotting the Olympics.  Rabbi Stephen Wise was the head of the American Jewish Community at that time.  He pleaded with FDR to publicly denounce what Hitler was doing.  FDR refused.  Don't misunderstand, FDR was not an anti-Semite he just sat by idly.  David Wyman, who also was here to speak, (not such a good speaker btw) wrote of the abandoment of the Jews.  If you don't know him, you should know he is Protestant who taught at UMass Amherst.  Expert on the Holocaust.  You should also know that I am a former Holocaust educator.  My father, too, was there.  More notably, my father-in-law who is an Italian citizen, living in Italy at the time, was stationed near the Czech border, saw trains going to Poland and reported that there were rumors there were Jews on the trains heading to death camps.  He said the story was so unimaginable that no one believed it.

Stand down DVR - I got you on this one.  I love FDR and what he did for this country.  This episode in his career was a disappointment.

I was responding specifically to what was said about "bombing railroad stations" or military intervention.  

Also, you said that Karski met with FDR in 1943  but previous to that said that FDR knew  "for years" about
the extermination of the Jews ...  1943 was already 2 years into our direct military involvement.

The Olympics in Germany were in 1936 -- which was wellbefore the Kristallnacht and before the deportations to the work camps.

Getting back to the  criticism about FDR's not bombing the railroad stations -- if you mean on the end
where the death camps were located -- again ...  I stand by my statement that those camps were too deep
inside German-held territory to reach by bombers.   Our long range bombing technology was improving
as the war progessed  ..and even by 1943 .. we could technically reach that far  .. our technology and ability
to SAFELY take the bombers that deeply inside and back was not there.

I have studied the Holocaust since my days in high school at Orchard Lake, MI.    Based on my study
of the subject,  I rescpectfully disagree with you and others who say that FDR "sat idly".  

Like I said DVR--give it up.  If FDR was already discussing with people what was happening to the Jews in 1933--that is about ten years prior to th visit by the famous Jan Karski.  Yeah know DVR you can't always be right.  When I am wrong on this board I admit it.  That's your problem--you always think you're right.  At St. Rose we learned humility--too bad that is one more thing Siena screwed up on.  I am quite involved with many Siena committees and programs--one more thing I will mention to them besides the plethora of "conservative" candidates they seem to produce.