it should be 70/30---developer/masullo..........of the initial hardware of the sewers if not 80/20......as for the drainage---that would be our problem(the town's issue)---should be done, done well and without the study to committe to study to committe to fundraiser to election to study to committe etc etc......
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
I re-read this entire thread and there is more than enough “history” contained there to understand things, I think. So, I’ve decided to take some of my own advice…forget about assigning blame and try to keep moving forward toward the solution we’ve been seeking, delayed again or not.
I fully appreciate the vote of those that might favor sewers…it’s been a difficult decision for me and one I might eventually regret. I’m willing to let the referendum decide it once and for all.
I would like to reiterate a few aspects that continue to disturb me though. We spent $16,000 in 2005, $14,000 in 2006, $3000 in 2007, and $40,500 in 2007. That’s $73,500…all for studies. The last chunk was to study land that was anticipated to be acquired for drainage but there’s been no word on the status since. And now the “full blown package” estimate that was pitched to us last Fall is no longer ready to go? It is becoming increasingly obvious that our intended destiny is being subverted by the HM project and desires to develop the remaining Masullo Estates properties.
It may be next year before we see renewed effort to deliver what was promised but we’re NOT going away until we get it.
Michael---this is a wet paperbag with no out unless we all lean to the right at the same time.....I'm not so sure there are upright 'deals' going on here.....
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
Posted on: 04/30/08 Ross Marvin, Spotlight Staff email: marvinr@spotlightnews.com
On a night when the topic at hand was the possibility of a sewer district extension to Masullo Estates in Rotterdam, more than two dozen residents made it clear they needed the town to take action to solve their drainage problem as soon as possible, regardless of whether or not the sewer project moves forward.
But, an engineer hired by the town said it will take months before drainage work can begin in development, where a notoriously high water table has flooded basements and led to deteriorating roads for the past 20 years.
“Work could begin six months from today,” said Brett Steenburgh, a civil engineer.
Steenburgh said that design work was finished on the drainage plan, but that it would take time to complete the bidding process and find the appropriate funding. The engineer estimated work could begin in the fall, coming to completion in the spring of 2009.
Steenburgh gave a presentation to residents of the 90-home Masullo Estates during a public hearing at a the town board meeting on Wednesday, April 23, regarding a proposed sewer district extension for the neighborhood.
Most of the residents that spoke at the public hearing agreed that a sewer line extension would only slightly alleviate the neighborhood’s drainage problems.
“We’re not concerned about sewers at this time,” said Tony Tabelli, who has lived on West Lucille Lane for 30 years. “We want to get our cellars dry.”
Tabelli urged the board to kill the sewer project at the meeting.
“You’re beating a dead horse,” he said, in reference to the majority of residents that spoke against the project.
Still, other residents understood that a sewer line could increase the value of their homes.
“It’s a tough decision,” said Gary Nowicki, of East Lucille Lane.
While Nowicki wasn’t clear whether or not he supported the sewer project, he also voiced his concerns about waiting too long to correct the development’s problem with a high water table.
“It appears we’re going to miss another construction season,” said Nowicki.
Steenburgh admitted that sewers weren’t ultimately a solution to the drainage problem.
“But they will help the drainage,” said Steenburgh, who noted that some of the standing water in Masullo Estates was septic water.
The construction of the sewers would be paid for by the residents in the form of a 15-year, $320,000 bond. Including the costs of debt service and operation and maintenance, each household would pay $610.40 in the first year if the sewer project goes forward.
But for some residents, the costs would be greater. Nineteen of the homes would be geographically unable to use the proposed gravity sewers without the aid of a grinder pump.
One affected resident, Michael O’Connor, of East Lucille Lane, called the project cost prohibitive. He said a grinder pump could cost him an estimated $3,000 to $5,000.
“The extension proposed disproportionately burdens some homeowners,” said O’Connor, whose comments were received with applause from some in the audience.
The Town Board still has to vote on the resolution. If passed, each homeowner in Masullo Estates will cast a ballot in a referendum vote in June. If the resolution fails, the sewer project will be discontinued.
Supervisor Steven Tommasone said the board will make its decision next month.
He said the board may call a special meeting in the interim to further discuss the potential project with residents.
“The residents of the area signed a petition to ask the board to consider a sewer line extension,” said Tommasone. “We still need to call for a vote.”
Tommasone said that regardless of the vote on the sewers, plans for major drainage improvements and road repairs would move forward.
How about some free concrete from the developer to fill in the basements.....no basement no pumping......coldbrook has no basements for this reason too......
...you are a product of your environment, your environment is a product of your priorities, your priorities are a product of you......
The replacement of morality and conscience with law produces a deadly paradox.
STOP BEING GOOD DEMOCRATS---STOP BEING GOOD REPUBLICANS--START BEING GOOD AMERICANS
If I lived in Masullo's, I would have opted for the sewers. The sewers will only help their drainage problem ever so slightly, but it would increase their home value. And perhaps avoid a possible health hazard in the future.
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
The sewer extension referendum resolution was passed at tonight's meeting in Rotterdam Junction. I asked for clarification before passage on the following points:
* who would be responsible for administering/overseeing the actual vote? * would it be a machine or paper ballot? * who actually gets a vote?
These were issues without clear answers at the public hearing and the attorney, Mr. Ryan, was in attendance to provide the answers. He indicated a preference for a machine vote, adminstered by a yet-to-be-determined panel of election inspectors to be chosen by the Town Board from 4-6 names submitted by the Supervisor. He cited a law ruling that indicates that each deed holder gets a vote and that its not one household/one vote. (ie: jointly held property gets two votes, etc.)
I took issue with this for the simple reason it seems odd and maybe unfair but he's the lawyer, not me...and he seems capable enough. I'll check the law nonetheless for my own peace of mind. I was joined in thinking it odd by Mr. Silva (who abstained as a result) and Mr. Godlewski who was in attendance. Mr. Godlewski pointed out that previous sewer referendums weren't conducted like that to his knowledge. I suspect it may have something to do with the law mechanisms that determined the referendum to begin with...remember, we didn't take the conventional route and were nearly denied our right to vote at all. I doubt it makes much difference in the end, but it's funny how ONE non-binding postcard per household was enough for the train to leave the station at warp speed...
Anyway, we wanted our vote and we'll get it...weirdly structured or not.
ROTTERDAM Masullo sewer vote set June 10 Groundwater problems still far from being solved BY JUSTIN MASON Gazette Reporter Reach Gazette reporter Justin Mason at 395-3113 or jmason@dailygazette.net
Homeowners of Masullo Estates will be polled next month to see if they will support a dry sewer line as part of a multimillion-dollar drainage and road reconstruction slated for the neighborhood. The Town Board set a referendum vote for the proposed sewer district on June 10 at Town Hall. If the plan is approved, the 88 homeowners in the development would fund the sewer district by paying roughly $611 annually over 15 years. Only those named on property deeds within the neighborhood will be eligible to vote. In the event of a corporation or trust owning property in the development, a single shareholder or trustee will be allowed to cast a ballot. "If you're a property owner, you get to vote," said William Ryan Jr., an attorney advising the town on the referendum. However, Ryan said a household with two names on its deed would be permitted two votes. He said opinions by the state Court of Appeals and the state Comptroller's Office affirmed this position. Four of five board members voted in favor of the referendum during Wednesday's meeting at the Rotterdam Junction Fire Department. Board member John Silva abstained after voicing displeasure over the potential of some households having more than one vote. "There's something pitifully absurd about that," he said. Town officials began considering the sewer line after it became clear they needed to fully reconstruct the badly deteriorated road and its subsurface. By installing the pipe during the reconstruction project, the neighborhood could cost-effectively create the district and eventually hook into the proposed 261-unit Helderberg Meadows development. Engineers for the project have indicated Masullo's drainage problems may improve slightly if the neighborhood's homes decommission their septic systems in favor of a sewer district. However, some residents have criticized the project because of the cost to hook into the line and the uncertainty of how it would affect the drainage. Persistent problems with the high water table and wet basements are the major issue with drainage there. WATER TANK In other business, board members heard a report from engineers designing an elevated water tank for Rotterdam Junction. The 500,000 gallon tank would be expandable and built on a concrete pedestal constructed west of the SI Group's distribution plant off Route 5S. Donald Fletcher, a project engineer with Barton & Loguidice, said cost estimates for the project range from $1.8 million up to $2 million, which is about 10 percent more than originally anticipated. He said much of this increase could be attributed to hikes in the cost of steel and concrete. Town officials anticipate setting a public hearing on the project in July. If approved, construction could begin during the fall and would likely conclude during spring 2009. Town officials estimate the cost to be about $250 annually for residents using water districts 3 and 4. The existing 200,000 gallon concrete tank is too small to serve the 577 users in these districts and has deteriorated. "Sooner or later, something bad is going to happen," said Clark Collins, the town's water plant supervisor. "It's the law of averages."
ATTENTION ALL YE REPORTERS (That's you Justin and Ross)
There is only one Town Board meeting (May 28th) before the June 10th sewer referendum takes place. I just checked the agenda that is posted online and don't see any mention of selection of 4-6 election inspectors as called for in Resolution 181.
RESOLVED, that the Supervisor shall submit to the Town Board the names of 4-6 persons from which the Town Board shall select an adequate number of inspectors of election for the conduct of such election.
It seems to me that this selection process ought to be a public operation but I'm willing to listen to an alternative explanation if there is one. Also, there are still a few lingering concerns to be resolved prior to the vote. Mr. Ryan answered my question adequately about who gets a vote at the last meeting but only indicated a machine was likely the preferred method of gathering votes. When will that be definitively determined?
Here are some other questions to be answered still: Is it a simple majority vote? What sort of id will be required in order to vote, especially if only/all deed holders are eligible? Will absentee ballots be permitted?
These questions and any others should be addressed well in advance of voting to ensure this special election is conducted properly. May 28th appears to be the only meeting left to do so.
ATTENTION ALL YE REPORTERS (That's you Justin and Ross)
There is only one Town Board meeting (May 28th) before the June 10th sewer referendum takes place. I just checked the agenda that is posted online and don't see any mention of selection of 4-6 election inspectors as called for in Resolution 181.
RESOLVED, that the Supervisor shall submit to the Town Board the names of 4-6 persons from which the Town Board shall select an adequate number of inspectors of election for the conduct of such election.
It seems to me that this selection process ought to be a public operation but I'm willing to listen to an alternative explanation if there is one. Also, there are still a few lingering concerns to be resolved prior to the vote. Mr. Ryan answered my question adequately about who gets a vote at the last meeting but only indicated a machine was likely the preferred method of gathering votes. When will that be definitively determined?
Here are some other questions to be answered still: Is it a simple majority vote? What sort of id will be required in order to vote, especially if only/all deed holders are eligible? Will absentee ballots be permitted?
These questions and any others should be addressed well in advance of voting to ensure this special election is conducted properly. May 28th appears to be the only meeting left to do so.
I've been trying to research some of the lingering concerns regarding the administration of this vote. Since I will be out of town tomorrow, I'll miss my last opportunity before the vote to ask more questions of the Town Board and hope someone else raises these questions in my stead.
The court decision Mr. Ryan cited pertaining to who gets a vote is valid enough and it appears it's a simple majority vote.
My lingering concerns stem from my review of Article 6 of Town Law, primarily Sections 83, 84, and 84a, which I believe is the law used to govern any special elections. If so, then I am concerned that the eligible electors have not been registered by the election inspectors...and when will they be selected if not at tomorrow's meeting? There appear to be some problems with the administration of this vote, if this is the relevant law to apply, and perhaps it's not. It seems the town of New Hartford, NY experienced a similar problem in April 2007 that resulted in recounts and Article 78 proceedings. I hope that won't turn out to be the case here...but hey, I'm not a lawyer, I only play one on TV.
Has anyone ever participated in a similar vote to create a sewer or water district that can shed light?
We had a vote when they wanted to put a sewer district in on Princetown Road, when Jefferson School was expanding, and if I remember correctly, both myself and my wife were allowed to vote for that.
I'm sure it will be voted down anyways. Nor do I think it will even be a close vote. IMHO
When the INSANE are running the ASYLUM In individuals, insanity is rare; but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. -- Friedrich Nietzsche
“How fortunate for those in power that people never think.” Adolph Hitler
It's still too expensive for the residents to approve the sewer district. It will cost $600+ dollars a year for 15 years for the dry line and you can put in a new septic system for $2500 and it only cost $150 every 4 years to pump the septic tank to keep it in good working order. If some of the storm water, ground water, and storm water from Netherlands Village could be reduced to a reasonable level then the septic systems would work even better.
I received the mentioned letter in today's mail. I still have a few lingering concerns about the process but I'll try to have faith in it ultimately being done correctly.
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