EXACTLY!!! It is what it is and will not change. The foreign oil dependency is a money making bureaucracy just like the Environmental Conservation (global warming) is. The exact same things we are facing today is exactly the same thing people faced in the 70's. The only difference, they were just predicting an eminent ice age as opposed to global warming. And it really didn't matter if there was a dem or rep in office.

Maybe they were supporting the auto industry????? of course in the tranparent sort of way.......

Quoted Text

OPEC ministers mull production cut
BY TAREK EL-TABLAWY The Associated Press

    CAIRO, Egypt — OPEC oil ministers on Friday downplayed expectations of, but didn’t dismiss outright, an immediate output cut as they faced a third test in as many months of their ability to engineer a rebound in oil prices.
    The outcome of the hastily convened Cairo meeting today, billed as a consultative gathering to assess the impact of earlier production cuts, likely hinges on a key issue with which the cartel has had a checkered past: unity.
    Kuwaiti oil minister Mohammed Al-Aleem told reporters in Cairo that while the market was oversupplied, he believed there was “no need” for the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries to decide on cuts ahead of its regularly scheduled Dec. 17 meeting in Algeria.
    But Rafael Ramirez, oil minister for price hawk Venezuela, later said the option remained to cut production by “at least 1 million barrels” at the weekend gathering. “Maybe it’s necessary, a new cut,” Ramirez said. He quickly added, though, that such a decision could be taken now or next month.
    The diverging takes highlighted the difficulty of the task facing producers of almost 40 percent of the world’s oil.
    “There is total confusion” among OPEC’s 13 members, said Fadel Gheit, managing director of oil and gas research at Oppenheimer & Co. in New York. “These people ... really have no business model. They basically thrive when oil prices go up, and now they are crying uncle when prices go down.”
    And down they have gone, in a financial avalanche triggered by demand destruction, itself sped along by a world financial meltdown that also threatens to cut deeply into OPEC member states’ government budgets.
    Whereas crude stood at about $147 a barrel in mid-July, it now hovers about $90 lower. On Friday, the U.S. benchmark West Texas Intermediate crude for January delivery was trading at down about $3 per barrel at about $51.
    “They [OPEC] simply don’t react quick enough, and prices keep going down,” said Vincent Lauerman, OPEC expert and president of Calgary, Canada-based consultancy Geopolitics Central.
    This meeting will come down to what kingpin and traditional price dove Saudi Arabia wants, he said.
    Saudi oil minister Ali al-Naimi told reporters answers would come today.
    The cartel has already held one emergency meeting — on Oct. 24 in Vienna — to try to halt the slide in prices with an announcement of a 1.5 million barrel per day drop.
    It failed to support prices, and the cartel cobbled together the Cairo gathering on the sidelines of the Organization of Arab Petroleum Exporting Countries’ meeting.
    But members have been circumspect about expectations, leading some to speculate that OPEC is staying quiet to maintain the element of surprise.
    “As long as they do a substantive cut, they may be getting ahead of the curve and should be cutting enough to get ahead of demand destruction,” said Lauerman, citing about 1 to 1.2 million as the magic number.
    That has been the figure most readily cited by those nations proposing cuts, including Venezuela, which, like fellow price hawk Iran, needs crude at about $90 per barrel to meet current spending needs aimed in part at propping up its domestically unpopular regime.
    The two have found support from non-OPEC oil giant Russia. Its president, Dmitry Medvedev, said Thursday his country would cooperate with the group to support prices.
    Other OPEC members, such as Nigeria and Ecuador, face budget problems, too, making them reluctant to implement more cuts that might shrink revenues further.
    Nigerian envoy Odein Ajumogobia said the ministers were “just going to exchange ideas and views” at the gathering.
    Kuwait’s al-Aleem said current low prices benefit neither consumers nor producers and could undercut investments in future projects — a scenario that could lead to another spike down the road.
    “We think a decision could be taken, but I think it will happen in Algeria,” he said.
    OPEC’s last round of cuts would put its total production at about 30.5 million barrels per day.
    Unlike many of their fellow members, the Saudis are better positioned to cope with the drop in prices. The International Monetary Fund estimates that Riyadh needs crude in the range of about $50 per barrel for 2008 fiscal accounts to break even.
    While al-Naimi refused to tip his hand, an indication of the Saudi thinking may have emerged earlier this month when, during the Group of 20 meeting in Washington, King Abdullah pledged that the kingdom would do everything in its power to help the global economy recover.
    Higher oil prices would undermine that promise.
    Also unclear, after two earlier cuts failed to push prices higher, is what the group can do without prolonging the global economic downturn.
    “I would play ‘good cop’ and not do anything,” said Oppenheimer’s Gheit. “If they are patient, they will be rewarded because you will see a precipitous drop in capital spending, and that will tighten the market in itself.”
    But demand has shown little indication of rebounding soon, and global crude stockpiles are growing — as evidenced by a U.S. government report showing a surprisingly large 7 million barrel build in stocks last week.
    Those factors argue against restraint if some in OPEC want crude back up to at least $70.
    Even so, Algerian oil minister and OPEC president Chakib Khelil has urged a waitand-see approach, saying that the group risks losing credibility if it enacts new cuts in Cairo only to find that members were not complying with the Vienna decision.
    Political considerations are also likely to factor prominently. ............................................http://www.dailygazette.net/De.....amp;EntityId=Ar00400

With gas at record lows-This might be a good time for anyone with half a brain to sell your Navagator-Escalade-Denali/Yukon -F-150 to  others with half a brain-

Or if you only drive it 2,000 miles per year then it wouldn't be. Like for towing a boat or going camping, or fishing ir hunting, or loading it up with 7 people to drive to the state fair.

Quoted from Sombody

With gas at record lows-This might be a good time for anyone with half a brain to sell your Navagator-Escalade-Denali/Yukon -F-150 to  others with half a brain-

That would actually be 1/3 of a brain....because 1/3 belongs to the US auto corpse......

I know someone who owns a Cad. Escalade. And they use it only when they are going to a major sporting event (baseball or football game) out of the area and there are a few people going along. These people also own a conversion van that usually sits in the garage, but is taken out when they have even MORE people that are attending these sporting events and they all go together.

Well that does help make things " pencil " out - but  if your car payment is more than your house payment- your still not getting it-

I agree with you in theory. Although in the case I stated in the previous post, these people can afford it....believe me! Thereare those certain circumstances where people can afford the multiple gas guzzlers and the large homes to heat and boats and on and on! The people that I know work very hard for their money, like everyone else. They generously give back to the community and buy all of the toys they want for their enjoyment.

I think that we ALL do. Just at different levels. If I make $500/wk, I'm gonna buy as many 'toys' as I can with the money left over. If I made $10,000/wk, I'd still do the same. I 'd just have more money for more expensive toys.

Energy conservation has been a hot topic since the 70's. And NOTHING has changed!!

Quoted Text

Oil tumbles below $44 a barrel, gas hits new low
Oil prices fall below $44 a barrel, gasoline below $1.80 a gallon in broad economic pullback

By MARK WILLIAMS, Associated Press
Last updated: 1:45 p.m., Thursday, December 4, 2008

COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Oil tumbled below $44 a barrel Thursday and the average gallon of gasoline is now less than $1.80 nationally, both four year lows, as the number of people continuing to receive government aid reached a 26-year high, factory orders hit an eight-year low and major corporations slashed jobs.
     
Though the unprecedented decline in energy prices provides some relief to consumers and businesses, it has occurred as the nation dips into recession.

Part of the reason gasoline prices have fallen so low is that many people no longer have jobs to drive to and fewer people have money to spend shopping. Gasoline futures fell below a dollar a gallon.

Veteran energy analysts were stunned as they watched light sweet crude fall $2.91, more than 6 percent, to $43.88 on the New York Mercantile Exchange by early afternoon.

Just four months ago, crude rocketed close to $150 and the average gallon of gasoline went for more than $4 per gallon.

No one believed crude would lose ..................................http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=684302

Was it a boo boo or a one day sale?

The Sunoco on Hamburg St.  Wednesday it was $1.93.  Thursday it was $1.85.  Today (Friday) it was $1.77 when I went by around 5 pm.  Then about midnight it was $1.81

Quoted Text

Part of the reason gasoline prices have fallen so low is that many people no longer have jobs to drive to and fewer people have money to spend shopping. Gasoline futures fell below a dollar a gallon.

There is nothing left to wring out of this washcloth.....next is food/water.....of which has already been hit with 'unjust scales' false
advertising/packaging.......

the people are getting very very very restless and grumblings are beginning.......

Quoted Text

Electricity prices drop as natural gas prices fall

By LARRY RULISON , Busines writer
Last updated: 1:50 p.m., Thursday, December 11, 2008
The drop of wholesale natural gas prices is lowering the cost of electricity in the state.
     
An analysis released this afternoon by the New York State Independent System Operator shows that wholesale electric prices have declined 54 percent over the past several months because of a 45 percent decreased in wholesale natural gas prices.

The correlation between natural gas prices and electric prices is so strong in New York state because a.................................http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=749443

Does that mean that our National Grid bills will go down?

Quoted from Shadow

Does that mean that our National Grid bills will go down?

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.......dont they have a union contract to fill with pay......projection is part of it and NYS
let's them know(guarantee) their income via the Public Service Commision.......our rates are our rates and it is tightly controlled....
to make ALL parties happy......